WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.910 --> 00:00:10.910 Two little red lights came on this end. Okay. Good. 2 00:00:11.510 --> 00:00:13.190 Right there? Okay, good. That means it's working. 3 00:00:15.700 --> 00:00:20.270 Okay. Today is October 19, 2007. I'm Michele 4 00:00:20.270 --> 00:00:23.540 Christian and I am interviewing Wayne Moore for 5 00:00:23.540 --> 00:00:25.610 the Iowa State University oral history project. 6 00:00:29.070 --> 00:00:31.590 Mr. Moore, could you discuss--talk about where you 7 00:00:31.590 --> 00:00:36.590 grew up? And about your family? Where I grew up? Where you grew up. 8 00:00:38.130 --> 00:00:42.440 Yes, I grew up in northern Iowa, Kossuth County, 9 00:00:43.770 --> 00:00:45.480 on a farm near the city of Algona. 10 00:00:50.550 --> 00:00:53.850 What did your--your father farmed? Yes, my 11 00:00:53.850 --> 00:00:58.850 father was a farmer. We were--he was a tenant farmer 12 00:00:58.930 --> 00:01:00.980 and we lived on the property. 13 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:07.740 And the owner of the property lived in a separate 14 00:01:07.740 --> 00:01:08.220 house. 15 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:15.560 And so my background was farm background. I went 16 00:01:15.810 --> 00:01:20.810 to city school. All my education was in the 17 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:27.010 school system of Algona. Okay. Algona, Iowa, right? Yes. 18 00:01:28.220 --> 00:01:32.340 So I didn't--I wasn't in a country school room 19 00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:39.160 like typical early in the 20th century. I had--my 20 00:01:42.890 --> 00:01:46.530 mother had a couple of cousins that were 21 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:50.660 country school teachers so I was somewhat 22 00:01:50.660 --> 00:01:55.660 familiar with this system. One room and plop down on stools[?] 23 00:01:56.940 --> 00:01:59.380 in the middle of the room and all that sort of thing. 24 00:02:03.600 --> 00:02:07.540 And you graduated from Algona? Yeah, graduated from Algona High 25 00:02:07.540 --> 00:02:07.900 School. 26 00:02:10.450 --> 00:02:12.600 Did you have any brothers or sisters? Yes, one of each. 27 00:02:12.610 --> 00:02:17.610 One of each? Yeah, my brother was two years younger and my sister 28 00:02:18.130 --> 00:02:19.270 was twelve years younger. 29 00:02:27.450 --> 00:02:32.450 Why did you decide to come to Iowa State? Well, in 30 00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:38.300 our senior year in high school, my physics teacher, 31 00:02:38.350 --> 00:02:40.900 who was a graduate of Iowa State, 32 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:48.000 brought me to Ames with him to spend the day in 33 00:02:50.410 --> 00:02:55.410 what was called at that time spring day. And we 34 00:02:57.070 --> 00:03:01.200 toured various buildings on campus. And 35 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:08.950 at that time I had a feeling that I didn't want 36 00:03:08.950 --> 00:03:11.420 to go into farming. 37 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.750 In fact, I disliked it very much. That was the days 38 00:03:17.750 --> 00:03:22.750 of the Depression and we had shortages 39 00:03:24.990 --> 00:03:29.990 of--a shortage of money, mainly. We never had a 40 00:03:32.660 --> 00:03:37.660 shortage of food because on the farm we raised chickens and milked 41 00:03:37.990 --> 00:03:42.990 cows and so we had those sort of things. 42 00:03:46.310 --> 00:03:49.210 My mother and father had to think very hard to 43 00:03:49.210 --> 00:03:51.970 spend five cents a week for me to join the Boy 44 00:03:51.970 --> 00:03:52.420 Scouts. 45 00:03:54.700 --> 00:03:58.900 It was a very serious financial decision. They let 46 00:03:58.900 --> 00:04:01.270 me join, however. Oh, that's great. Yeah. 47 00:04:04.210 --> 00:04:08.140 So that's my background. Then 48 00:04:11.290 --> 00:04:15.160 I decided I wanted to go to Iowa State, but I 49 00:04:15.160 --> 00:04:19.470 didn't have money, of course. And I graduated from high school 50 00:04:19.510 --> 00:04:24.510 in 1936. I got a job in a drugstore in 51 00:04:27.010 --> 00:04:32.010 Algona, sort of soda jerk in a drugstore and 52 00:04:35.080 --> 00:04:40.080 spent a year saving money from the job. And that's how I had 53 00:04:41.590 --> 00:04:43.690 enough money to get started that first year. 54 00:04:46.060 --> 00:04:51.060 There was some tuition assistance, tuition was very 55 00:04:51.370 --> 00:04:56.370 low, too, I think twenty dollars, twenty dollars a quarter 56 00:04:56.530 --> 00:04:59.050 we were on a quarter system at that time. 57 00:05:01.200 --> 00:05:05.470 And then I got a job in the Memorial Union waiting 58 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:06.410 on tables. 59 00:05:08.770 --> 00:05:13.770 So, I worked while I was going to school. Now, my mother 60 00:05:15.970 --> 00:05:20.590 graduated from Algona high school herself, but my father 61 00:05:20.620 --> 00:05:24.620 didn't go any further than the eighth grade. Although he 62 00:05:24.700 --> 00:05:26.310 was a very intelligent person. 63 00:05:28.530 --> 00:05:33.530 And when I talked about going to school or 64 00:05:34.110 --> 00:05:38.970 going to college, that was something my father was 65 00:05:38.970 --> 00:05:42.480 almost unheard of. He couldn't 66 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:47.480 grasp the consequences and opportunities involved, 67 00:05:48.670 --> 00:05:52.520 but he was willing to let me go. Good. 68 00:05:55.440 --> 00:06:00.440 So that's working and going to school at the same 69 00:06:01.110 --> 00:06:02.730 time here in Ames. 70 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:10.560 What were your classes like? 71 00:06:12.780 --> 00:06:17.780 What were my classes like? Oh, well, my algebra 72 00:06:19.050 --> 00:06:24.050 class was held in a classroom in Beardshear Hall. At 73 00:06:25.140 --> 00:06:30.060 that time Beardshear Hall was mostly classrooms. And 74 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:37.160 then I had chemistry class over in the old chemistry building. 75 00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:45.180 And I had English class under a professor whose 76 00:06:47.410 --> 00:06:52.410 daughter is now married, living in Ames and 77 00:06:55.570 --> 00:06:57.610 she's in my age group. 78 00:06:59.900 --> 00:07:04.820 But he was one of my interesting professors. And 79 00:07:06.470 --> 00:07:11.470 that year was the year that 80 00:07:15.030 --> 00:07:17.830 one of the lecturers who came to campus was 81 00:07:18.190 --> 00:07:19.140 Amelia Earhart. Oh. 82 00:07:21.550 --> 00:07:26.550 And she was missing that was when she was first missing. But 83 00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:31.580 she had been here and people were very impressed with her, 84 00:07:32.050 --> 00:07:35.830 I recall a lot of people talked about her. And 85 00:07:39.570 --> 00:07:44.320 there is a book out somewhere by a lady who lived in 86 00:07:44.650 --> 00:07:48.730 Ames; the name of the book is I Taught Ameila Earhart 87 00:07:48.760 --> 00:07:53.760 to Fly and I've read that book. She was a flight 88 00:07:53.830 --> 00:07:56.970 instructor. And 89 00:07:59.130 --> 00:08:02.680 so, just an interesting 90 00:08:04.780 --> 00:08:07.710 happening in my first year here in college. What was 91 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:11.440 the name of the English professor? The what? The English 92 00:08:11.440 --> 00:08:13.120 professor that you had. Starbuck. Starbuck? Professor Starbuck, yeah. 93 00:08:16.900 --> 00:08:21.900 And his daughter that I spoke of is Roberta Lowkey[?]. She and her 94 00:08:24.280 --> 00:08:28.610 husband live just past a half mile from where I 95 00:08:28.620 --> 00:08:28.900 am. 96 00:08:36.780 --> 00:08:40.810 So, that is some of the memories that I recall from my 97 00:08:40.810 --> 00:08:42.660 first year in college here. 98 00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:47.530 What other professors can you remember? 99 00:08:49.780 --> 00:08:53.470 Well, this wasn't in my freshman year, it was somewhere in my 100 00:08:53.750 --> 00:08:58.750 junior year. Well, one of the math classes I had was taught by 101 00:09:00.020 --> 00:09:03.850 Vincent Atanasoff-- Oh really? --while he was 102 00:09:04.180 --> 00:09:06.730 professor here on the staff. Yeah. 103 00:09:09.540 --> 00:09:14.040 The course was differential equations. I don't 104 00:09:14.110 --> 00:09:17.590 remember too much about it except that it was also 105 00:09:17.590 --> 00:09:22.090 in a classroom in Beardshear Hall. Which is, I 106 00:09:22.090 --> 00:09:22.600 say, but most of that classroom 107 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:30.000 different than it is now, of course. So, 108 00:09:34.250 --> 00:09:37.780 one of the other professors I remember was 109 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:42.280 Ernie Anderson who was also a math professor 110 00:09:42.280 --> 00:09:43.630 and a physics professor. 111 00:09:46.350 --> 00:09:47.040 And I remember 112 00:09:50.300 --> 00:09:53.560 a professor--a physics professor, head of the 113 00:09:53.560 --> 00:09:56.980 department--Fox, Daryl Fox. 114 00:10:00.500 --> 00:10:04.440 Right off hand I can't think of others 115 00:10:04.560 --> 00:10:08.470 that I had. I had quite a few. Oh yeah. [laughter] 116 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.670 What types of extracurricular activities 117 00:10:14.670 --> 00:10:17.550 were you involved in? Well. 118 00:10:22.400 --> 00:10:27.400 At that time, the ROTC program here required all 119 00:10:28.700 --> 00:10:33.600 freshmen and sophomores to take the course. It was required. 120 00:10:34.660 --> 00:10:35.290 And 121 00:10:37.420 --> 00:10:42.420 the Field Artillery Unit--they are a unit that 122 00:10:43.690 --> 00:10:47.920 was running the ROTC program--had horses here, 123 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:52.960 supposedly to draw the cannons--horse-drawn 124 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:57.960 cannons, you know. However, the extracurricular activity 125 00:10:58.090 --> 00:11:02.450 associated with that was called The Cossacks, 126 00:11:02.510 --> 00:11:07.420 I believe. That was a riding group. And so 127 00:11:07.420 --> 00:11:11.800 I belonged to that. And it was trick riding, 128 00:11:12.310 --> 00:11:17.310 jump off and jump on the horse if they can't fall off. 129 00:11:19.570 --> 00:11:24.570 So I remember that as a curricular activity. Also, one 130 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:28.040 year for my 131 00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:36.040 requirement for physical education I took golf because 132 00:11:37.130 --> 00:11:40.150 the university golf course was--that was here at that time. 133 00:11:41.130 --> 00:11:46.130 I think at that time it was only nine holes rather than eighteen holes, but 134 00:11:46.930 --> 00:11:51.850 I remember that. That's all that occurs to me right now. 135 00:11:55.860 --> 00:11:59.880 Were you--I read somewhere that you were a 136 00:11:59.880 --> 00:12:04.880 member of Pi Kappa Phi. Social fraternity. Yes. Yeah. I 137 00:12:05.280 --> 00:12:07.590 didn't join that until my junior year. 138 00:12:12.810 --> 00:12:14.610 I joined it and it's 139 00:12:17.040 --> 00:12:18.690 an old decrepit house. 140 00:12:23.310 --> 00:12:28.310 And I enjoyed the fraternity life quite well. And I 141 00:12:30.210 --> 00:12:35.210 worked with them as an alumnus over the years and 142 00:12:35.580 --> 00:12:39.990 they've had their ups and downs. But we built a 143 00:12:39.990 --> 00:12:44.990 house, a new fraternity house. That was about fifteen 144 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.050 years ago, something like that, in the same location 145 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:51.660 that was where the old house was. 146 00:12:54.630 --> 00:12:59.170 And I've 147 00:13:02.250 --> 00:13:04.940 minimized my activities with the fraternity house 148 00:13:05.010 --> 00:13:08.970 because I don't get around too much anymore. But 149 00:13:08.970 --> 00:13:13.970 recently the head of the alumni group--Alumni Association talked-- 150 00:13:15.350 --> 00:13:20.190 was talking to me and they bought in addition to 151 00:13:20.190 --> 00:13:23.700 the new house which built on--tore down the 152 00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:27.590 old house and built on the same property, but 153 00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:30.570 recently they bought some additional property 154 00:13:30.630 --> 00:13:35.630 next to the fraternity house. And so they seem to 155 00:13:36.640 --> 00:13:37.380 be doing all right. Oh good. 156 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:44.830 What made you decide to join that fraternity? Oh. I 157 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.850 Don't know. They're-- 158 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:54.000 The members of the house kept bugging me 159 00:13:56.070 --> 00:13:56.570 and 160 00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:03.450 pointing out the values of fraternity life and so 161 00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:08.450 on. And so, I finally decided to give it a try. It cost 162 00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:14.450 a little more money than not belonging to a fraternity, but 163 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.950 I was continuing to work part time and had a pretty 164 00:14:20.950 --> 00:14:25.950 good job and so I began to plan to spread my 165 00:14:29.190 --> 00:14:34.190 college life from four years to five years. And I 166 00:14:35.130 --> 00:14:40.130 started in the fall of 1937. So, naturally, 167 00:14:44.910 --> 00:14:49.910 the war had claimed--I had gained--I took ROTC for a 168 00:14:53.560 --> 00:14:56.380 total of four years so I got my reserve commission 169 00:14:56.410 --> 00:15:01.410 as a Second Lieutenant. And that was in the 170 00:15:03.970 --> 00:15:08.970 graduation of 1941, spring graduation. And then I 171 00:15:13.390 --> 00:15:18.390 had a little bit of a problem with my weight. They wanted to 172 00:15:19.390 --> 00:15:21.610 call me to active duty--this 173 00:15:23.850 --> 00:15:25.440 was before Pearl Harbor-- 174 00:15:27.940 --> 00:15:32.940 but I didn't--I couldn't qualify for active duty 175 00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:40.710 because I didn't weigh enough. And, but after Pearl 176 00:15:42.230 --> 00:15:47.230 Harbor, why, they were a lot less fussy. [laughter] And so I went 177 00:15:47.920 --> 00:15:52.510 into service in February of forty-two. I 178 00:15:52.660 --> 00:15:57.430 was supposed to graduate here in May forty-two, but the dean of 179 00:15:57.430 --> 00:16:02.210 engineering decided, looking at my record and the extra 180 00:16:02.260 --> 00:16:07.260 credits--the extra courses that I had taken, that he 181 00:16:10.350 --> 00:16:15.350 could qualify me for graduation. So my bachelor of 182 00:16:16.030 --> 00:16:21.030 engineering, electrical engineering, was obtained 183 00:16:21.340 --> 00:16:26.340 in absentia in the spring of forty-two 184 00:16:27.700 --> 00:16:28.780 while I was on active duty. 185 00:16:32.470 --> 00:16:35.620 Before we get into your World War II 186 00:16:35.620 --> 00:16:38.020 record, I'd like to know a little bit more about 187 00:16:38.410 --> 00:16:40.780 your work with the civilian conservation corps, 188 00:16:42.470 --> 00:16:47.470 the CCC. Yeah. Yeah. What did you do? I taught--I taught 189 00:16:47.910 --> 00:16:51.580 classes, evening classes. 190 00:16:55.920 --> 00:17:00.920 In high school I had taken bookkeeping, and shorthand, and 191 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:05.170 typing. And 192 00:17:07.260 --> 00:17:10.000 that was one of the most fortunate things I ever did 193 00:17:10.030 --> 00:17:14.830 because my typing is--because of computers coming 194 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:19.270 into the picture. My typing opened the doors to a lot of 195 00:17:19.270 --> 00:17:23.680 things that I could do. But anyway, to get back to your 196 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:24.240 story. 197 00:17:28.290 --> 00:17:33.290 The CCC camp at the corner of Lincoln Way and Franklin Avenue 198 00:17:33.630 --> 00:17:34.030 was 199 00:17:37.600 --> 00:17:42.390 one of 200 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.220 employment to keep 201 00:17:50.950 --> 00:17:54.520 producing. In this case, the CCC camp was a 202 00:17:54.520 --> 00:17:59.350 forestry camp. So the kids during the daytime were 203 00:17:59.470 --> 00:18:03.010 planting trees and 204 00:18:05.020 --> 00:18:07.980 doing other things associated with development 205 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:13.000 of green space and so on. And the night 206 00:18:14.230 --> 00:18:19.230 classes were for their benefit if they wanted to 207 00:18:20.890 --> 00:18:25.890 take them. It was voluntary. And so having taught typing and 208 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.570 shorthand and bookkeeping or having taken them in high 209 00:18:31.570 --> 00:18:36.570 school I was able to teach them to the CCC kids. So 210 00:18:39.060 --> 00:18:42.270 that's what I do at seven o'clock at night while I was there 211 00:18:43.260 --> 00:18:48.260 and teach these different courses to the residents of 212 00:18:51.520 --> 00:18:55.600 the camp. So that's how I got involved with them. Oh good. 213 00:18:59.040 --> 00:19:03.920 Did you enjoy that experience? Yeah, I enjoyed the teaching and 214 00:19:04.600 --> 00:19:07.440 the pay was pretty good. It was keeping me-- 215 00:19:07.570 --> 00:19:08.770 keeping me in college. 216 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:14.380 I also saw that you were a member of the Knights 217 00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:19.000 of Saint Patrick. Yeah. Could you talk about what 218 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:23.090 the organization was and your involvement in it? 219 00:19:29.410 --> 00:19:34.410 Well. I can't remember what organization it was associated 220 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:40.720 with. You got any other-- The College of Engineering, I think is what-- 221 00:19:41.390 --> 00:19:46.080 College of--? Yeah. Okay. It was a student-run 222 00:19:46.120 --> 00:19:47.860 organization. And 223 00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:57.320 they had a song, Saint Patrick was an engineer, 224 00:19:57.820 --> 00:19:58.920 he was, he was. 225 00:20:02.820 --> 00:20:06.640 I don't remember too much about the activities. We'd meet 226 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.740 once in a while, but 227 00:20:13.830 --> 00:20:18.030 I wasn't an officer or anything like that, I was 228 00:20:18.190 --> 00:20:18.810 just a member of the group. 229 00:20:21.220 --> 00:20:23.850 There were other organizations that I spent a 230 00:20:23.850 --> 00:20:27.090 little more time. 231 00:20:40.490 --> 00:20:45.350 There was a mathematics organization, Eta Kappa Nu, I 232 00:20:45.350 --> 00:20:50.350 believe it was called, and then the engineering 233 00:20:54.250 --> 00:20:55.350 organization, it was an 234 00:20:57.530 --> 00:21:00.600 honorary basically, Tau Beta Pi. Okay. 235 00:21:03.530 --> 00:21:08.530 Qualifications for belonging to it were a 236 00:21:08.690 --> 00:21:13.690 high grade point average and I almost never had 237 00:21:16.130 --> 00:21:20.900 too much trouble with grades and so I belonged to a lot of 238 00:21:22.010 --> 00:21:25.860 organizations similar to that. Good. Some of them I've forgotten about. 239 00:21:28.700 --> 00:21:32.210 That's fine. I also read that you worked for the 240 00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:37.210 Daily, for the Iowa State Student. Yeah. For two quarters, 241 00:21:37.940 --> 00:21:40.070 I think I worked on the business staff of the 242 00:21:40.110 --> 00:21:45.110 Daily. And, but it didn't interest me too much 243 00:21:46.890 --> 00:21:47.170 so I didn't 244 00:21:50.120 --> 00:21:52.810 fool around with it very much. 245 00:21:58.060 --> 00:22:00.360 You went over--what did you do in World War II? 246 00:22:00.490 --> 00:22:03.520 You work--you started your commission in February 247 00:22:04.060 --> 00:22:08.530 of forty-two? I got called onto active duty in February, yeah. 248 00:22:14.320 --> 00:22:19.320 And my orders I received by mail, of course, and 249 00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:23.890 they instructed me to report to Fort Monroe, 250 00:22:23.890 --> 00:22:28.890 Virginia, on a such-and-such a date. So, I left Ames and in fact I 251 00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:39.520 was in the winter quarter, February, so I probably-- 252 00:22:43.410 --> 00:22:46.780 I probably dropped out of school. I remember I talked 253 00:22:46.780 --> 00:22:50.790 to the dean of engineer before going and 254 00:22:50.860 --> 00:22:55.860 we arranged that I would get my degree in May, my 255 00:22:56.250 --> 00:22:57.130 bachelor's degree. 256 00:22:59.170 --> 00:23:02.130 But in February I went to Fort Monroe, Virginia, 257 00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:07.220 where I was assigned to the--my commission, my 258 00:23:07.710 --> 00:23:10.590 reserve commission, was in field artillery, but 259 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.410 apparently they needed some people in the coastal 260 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:19.460 artillery, which was--the coastal artillery was also 261 00:23:20.790 --> 00:23:25.200 responsible for anti-aircraft artillery. And the 262 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.870 reason I got pulled in that direction is because some of 263 00:23:27.870 --> 00:23:30.300 the courses I was taking in 264 00:23:33.360 --> 00:23:36.420 engineering--electrical engineering--had to do with high 265 00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:41.420 frequencies and at that time high frequencies was a 266 00:23:42.300 --> 00:23:43.650 very hush-hush thing. 267 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:50.400 And I ended up in 268 00:23:52.620 --> 00:23:55.860 Fort Monroe, Virginia, belonging to 269 00:24:00.370 --> 00:24:05.370 an anti-aircraft radar unit. And we were 270 00:24:07.270 --> 00:24:11.440 getting courses, taught the latest hush-hush 271 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:16.440 thing. I remember, we would make notes, but we had 272 00:24:17.890 --> 00:24:21.070 to turn the notes in and I remember seeing them 273 00:24:21.080 --> 00:24:26.080 crossed out because of this new oscillator that 274 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:32.760 we were learning about as part of our radar unit. 275 00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:38.110 Strange thing about that oscillator is 276 00:24:39.540 --> 00:24:43.040 I remember how hush-hush it was at that time but now it's 277 00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:48.960 the key part of a microwave oven. Really? 278 00:24:52.390 --> 00:24:56.230 It's an oscillater. All microwave ovens use that oscillator because 279 00:24:56.470 --> 00:25:01.470 at that frequency it heats up food, which we 280 00:25:02.170 --> 00:25:02.650 found out 281 00:25:05.210 --> 00:25:07.040 while we're in the service sitting near the 282 00:25:07.950 --> 00:25:11.200 radar unit with a sandwich. You could get the sandwich heated up. 283 00:25:13.600 --> 00:25:17.710 So that was very interesting, but I got 284 00:25:17.710 --> 00:25:21.660 reassigned to another unit which was not this 285 00:25:21.760 --> 00:25:26.760 radar unit and I went overseas with them in February 286 00:25:27.230 --> 00:25:28.870 1943. 287 00:25:31.360 --> 00:25:31.840 And 288 00:25:33.910 --> 00:25:38.880 at that time, there were German subs all over 289 00:25:39.030 --> 00:25:40.210 in the Atlantic, you know. We were on a boat in 290 00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:45.270 a convoy and 291 00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:51.480 I was told there was a mix up in the middle of the 292 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:56.480 night one night while we were crossing. And so they thought 293 00:25:57.650 --> 00:26:00.960 there were some subs in their area, German subs. 294 00:26:01.620 --> 00:26:05.190 But we didn't get sunk or anything. 295 00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:12.460 So, we stopped at, I think our first stop was 296 00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:20.000 in Africa. Casablanca. And the only reason I remember 297 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:25.640 that is because that became a famous movie later on. Then we went 298 00:26:26.740 --> 00:26:27.690 on down to-- 299 00:26:32.040 --> 00:26:36.300 Sierra Leone was another country on the coast of 300 00:26:36.300 --> 00:26:41.180 Africa. We went way on down to Roberts Field, 301 00:26:42.030 --> 00:26:47.030 which was an airfield in the western bulge of 302 00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:52.320 Africa. It was the closest point between Africa and 303 00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:57.430 South America. So they were ferrying new airplanes for the 304 00:26:58.620 --> 00:27:03.450 European theater but they hadn't finished it--give them to a new pilot. 305 00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:09.030 He'd fly them down to South America. Then he'd fly 306 00:27:09.030 --> 00:27:13.610 across the ocean to the Roberts Field where I was 307 00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:18.680 stationed and I was with a unit--anti-aircraft unit that was 308 00:27:22.840 --> 00:27:25.270 supposed to defend the field against the enemy. 309 00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:30.490 Well, things changed, so there wasn't really much 310 00:27:30.690 --> 00:27:33.940 of the enemy around at that moment. I was there a year 311 00:27:34.540 --> 00:27:37.530 and then I got reassigned to India, the China-Burma-India 312 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:43.000 theater. And there we did have some action 313 00:27:46.210 --> 00:27:50.390 because the Japanese had invaded India, but they 314 00:27:50.390 --> 00:27:55.390 weren't doing very well. And, so I stayed in India up 315 00:28:00.520 --> 00:28:03.910 in the upper part of India for several months and 316 00:28:03.910 --> 00:28:05.830 then I was reassigned to Calcutta, which is down in the 317 00:28:08.070 --> 00:28:13.070 lower part of India. And that was the tenth 318 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.880 headquarters of the Tenth Air Force, I think. And I spent, 319 00:28:23.540 --> 00:28:27.260 oh, about six months there or something like that. Anyway, the 320 00:28:27.260 --> 00:28:31.090 war was winding down and so in 1945 321 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:38.240 I was assigned to go home from India. So, 322 00:28:41.050 --> 00:28:46.050 I got a fair[?] where they had to build a little doghouse, you might say a 323 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:51.880 big doghouse, had twelve bunks in it. I was assigned 324 00:28:53.020 --> 00:28:58.020 to one of those bunks. And we were going back to the United 325 00:28:58.540 --> 00:29:03.540 States by the Pacific supposedly to be 326 00:29:04.360 --> 00:29:07.290 reassigned for the invasion of 327 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:15.720 Japan--the mainland Japan. Well, 328 00:29:18.460 --> 00:29:23.460 I got home, landed in Los Angeles aboard the--those of us who 329 00:29:25.040 --> 00:29:28.410 were just passengers on this freighter. We got off. 330 00:29:29.090 --> 00:29:34.090 We were sent home on leave. And I came to Ames. 331 00:29:35.410 --> 00:29:36.160 And 332 00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:42.090 Ames had become my home. My parents had moved down 333 00:29:42.110 --> 00:29:47.110 to Ames during the time I was overseas because 334 00:29:47.530 --> 00:29:49.600 my father had a job at the university. What did he do? 335 00:29:52.450 --> 00:29:57.450 Feeeding cattle and cattle research. And he 336 00:29:58.750 --> 00:30:01.570 was not a research professor but he was an 337 00:30:01.570 --> 00:30:06.570 assistant helping to feed the cattle. Good job. And 338 00:30:09.340 --> 00:30:10.330 since I had-- 339 00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:15.150 Ames had sort of become my home anyway because 340 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:20.660 I had been here in college for four years. So that 341 00:30:20.660 --> 00:30:20.990 was that. 342 00:30:23.370 --> 00:30:28.370 While I was home they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, and that changed 343 00:30:29.350 --> 00:30:31.900 everything again. And 344 00:30:34.360 --> 00:30:39.350 then I got malaria. I'd been in the tropics for a couple 345 00:30:39.350 --> 00:30:44.010 years and never had it but I got it while I was here. You got malaria in Ames? 346 00:30:44.360 --> 00:30:44.570 Yeah. 347 00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:49.750 And the 348 00:30:54.420 --> 00:30:57.360 university hospital had been taken over by the 349 00:30:57.360 --> 00:31:01.650 Navy--it was being operated by the Navy. And there was a 350 00:31:01.650 --> 00:31:06.210 young doctor there and he looked at me and we didn't 351 00:31:06.210 --> 00:31:11.210 know what I had there at first, I just sat there. He was a 352 00:31:11.450 --> 00:31:16.260 wonderful doctor. And he said I just think you got malaria, I'm 353 00:31:16.470 --> 00:31:21.470 going to start the treatment. And so I got very sick 354 00:31:21.860 --> 00:31:26.860 and he put me in a hospital on the campus and 355 00:31:30.310 --> 00:31:32.760 he started giving me the cure. [sound of messing with the recording machine] 356 00:31:45.910 --> 00:31:50.650 They started the cure. So that Navy doctor, he 357 00:31:50.650 --> 00:31:54.790 was just an ensign, a young man. Later on, after he got out the 358 00:31:55.450 --> 00:31:59.610 service, he came to Ames to practice and 359 00:32:02.020 --> 00:32:05.870 he was one of my close friends-- Oh. --for many years after that. 360 00:32:06.260 --> 00:32:11.230 And what is his name? His name is Hildebrand. Dr. 361 00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:16.240 Hildebrand. And so he took care of my kids 362 00:32:20.080 --> 00:32:24.210 when I started a family. He was part of 363 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:27.400 McFarland Clinic. And-- 364 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:34.920 so, well, that's just incidental. So, I 365 00:32:37.630 --> 00:32:41.920 guess I've answered that question. What do you want to ask now. 366 00:32:43.870 --> 00:32:46.540 So you came back to Ames. Yeah, came back to Ames. 367 00:32:47.140 --> 00:32:49.120 And what was your first position when you came 368 00:32:49.120 --> 00:32:52.860 back to Ames? My first position-- After you were released from 369 00:32:52.860 --> 00:32:56.570 the service. Oh yeah. I was an instructor in the 370 00:32:56.580 --> 00:32:57.660 College of Engineering. 371 00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:03.380 And what did you teach? Well, I taught the 372 00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:06.810 predecessor to the computer--the slide rule. How to operate a 373 00:33:07.040 --> 00:33:12.040 slide rule. And now all out of date now. I've seen those. 374 00:33:14.420 --> 00:33:16.030 They do need classes on teaching that. 375 00:33:20.130 --> 00:33:24.870 But I also--as time went on I would teach other 376 00:33:24.870 --> 00:33:29.870 subjects in management and statistical quality 377 00:33:32.310 --> 00:33:33.030 control and 378 00:33:36.080 --> 00:33:39.270 other subjects similar in nature. 379 00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:44.310 It was in the Department of General Engineering, which 380 00:33:44.310 --> 00:33:48.960 would later change its name to industrial 381 00:33:49.010 --> 00:33:49.530 engineering. 382 00:33:53.420 --> 00:33:58.420 The name now is a little different than that--industrial engineering and management or 383 00:33:58.920 --> 00:33:59.800 something like that. 384 00:34:02.080 --> 00:34:05.910 And that's teaching started. 385 00:34:08.590 --> 00:34:13.590 Well, I went up to visit the registrar, who was a friend 386 00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:19.440 of mine from before the war, 387 00:34:21.460 --> 00:34:26.460 and he said that I think--this was while somewhere around the time 388 00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:33.740 I got malaria and so on, but after I got out of it and I was 389 00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:37.510 still here in Ames. I had a job offer that I got 390 00:34:39.610 --> 00:34:44.610 In 1942 from Bell Laboratories in New 391 00:34:47.020 --> 00:34:52.020 Jersey. And they told me that when I got back 392 00:34:53.830 --> 00:34:54.580 from the war--they probably 393 00:34:56.780 --> 00:35:00.910 thought to themselves if I get back from the war--I was to go 394 00:35:00.910 --> 00:35:03.430 there and I had a job waiting for me. 395 00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:08.170 Well, that's what I was planning to do when I 396 00:35:08.290 --> 00:35:13.290 stopped here to visit my family. And so as I said 397 00:35:15.430 --> 00:35:20.200 I was also talking with the registrar and he said, why 398 00:35:20.200 --> 00:35:22.630 don't you stick around? He said, we're going to 399 00:35:22.630 --> 00:35:26.210 have a few extra students, I think, and you can help 400 00:35:27.590 --> 00:35:32.590 classify them. Well, they let so many millions of 401 00:35:35.620 --> 00:35:38.990 veterans out that we were just--. 402 00:35:43.150 --> 00:35:46.650 We were getting ready for winter quarter and this 403 00:35:46.650 --> 00:35:51.650 was in the fall of 1945 and he said you can help 404 00:35:53.040 --> 00:35:58.040 process the students and we can pay fifty cents an hour. Well, 405 00:35:58.700 --> 00:36:03.060 they came in such droves that in January 1946 406 00:36:04.140 --> 00:36:07.470 the university was three days late in opening. Oh 407 00:36:07.470 --> 00:36:12.470 wow. And Dr. Friley was president then, of course, and he was not 408 00:36:13.670 --> 00:36:17.730 happy at all, but we just were inundated with 409 00:36:17.730 --> 00:36:22.650 veterans and I was helping in the registrar's 410 00:36:22.650 --> 00:36:24.330 office. But 411 00:36:26.370 --> 00:36:31.050 I started teaching and Joe Walkup who was head of 412 00:36:31.160 --> 00:36:34.500 the general engineering department wrote a letter to President 413 00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:35.100 Friley. 414 00:36:37.240 --> 00:36:42.200 And President Friley was a hands-on president. He 415 00:36:42.210 --> 00:36:46.050 knew--he knew everybody and he knew what salary 416 00:36:46.050 --> 00:36:50.290 they were getting and he usually set the salaries and so on. And 417 00:36:51.250 --> 00:36:55.470 Joe Walkup wrote him a letter requesting permission to 418 00:36:55.470 --> 00:36:58.980 hire me for a temporary period of three months. 419 00:37:00.600 --> 00:37:01.100 He thought that the 420 00:37:03.160 --> 00:37:07.420 crowd would disperse by that time and the number of veterans would drop off. 421 00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:12.490 Well, that three months ended up being forty or fifty years 422 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:18.320 because I was here until I retired with a 423 00:37:20.980 --> 00:37:23.890 certain period of time when I went to Japan 424 00:37:27.630 --> 00:37:32.630 as working for the Air Force, but I was a 425 00:37:33.490 --> 00:37:38.320 civilian analyst; I was not in the military. But 426 00:37:38.710 --> 00:37:43.450 I had just gotten married and so for two years 427 00:37:43.750 --> 00:37:48.750 I was in Japan working. What did you do while 428 00:37:49.810 --> 00:37:52.030 you were in Japan? What kind of projects did you 429 00:37:52.030 --> 00:37:56.510 work on? Well, it sounds silly now, but 430 00:37:58.680 --> 00:38:01.590 I was part of a team trying to determine how we 431 00:38:01.590 --> 00:38:06.590 would survive an atomic attack--atomic bomb attack. 432 00:38:09.050 --> 00:38:14.050 And this is when we were at odds with Russia and so on--the Soviet 433 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:20.360 Union. And so the kind of work that I did, it was 434 00:38:21.500 --> 00:38:24.210 really to play war games, you might say. 435 00:38:26.490 --> 00:38:29.610 And it was kind of futile because 436 00:38:32.490 --> 00:38:37.280 how do you handle an atomic bomb, I mean? Yeah. It 437 00:38:37.290 --> 00:38:40.320 was--it was 438 00:38:43.330 --> 00:38:47.140 frustrating. We have a lot of meetings and a lot 439 00:38:47.140 --> 00:38:51.400 of different people in the military and civilians and 440 00:38:51.460 --> 00:38:56.460 government officials and also people from the 441 00:38:56.560 --> 00:38:59.110 Japanese government. 442 00:39:01.340 --> 00:39:06.340 And so after two years of that kind of work, I was pretty well set up with it 443 00:39:09.950 --> 00:39:14.950 and decided I would drop and go back to university. So 444 00:39:15.730 --> 00:39:20.730 that was--I went over there in fifty-five, and we came back in 1957. And 445 00:39:23.470 --> 00:39:26.500 they immediately wanted me to go back to work teaching again. Okay. 446 00:39:29.650 --> 00:39:34.650 So, I started that and until 1960 doing the teaching 447 00:39:36.580 --> 00:39:39.300 for three years. In 1960, 448 00:39:42.110 --> 00:39:47.110 Dr. Hilton called me into his office and 449 00:39:47.240 --> 00:39:52.240 wanted me to go on a--join a special committee. 450 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:56.450 Dr. Hilton was having trouble with Dr. Hancher 451 00:39:56.450 --> 00:40:00.500 down at Iowa City who was President down there and both 452 00:40:00.500 --> 00:40:04.130 of them were trying to appeal to the Regents to 453 00:40:04.130 --> 00:40:07.280 say that they were underfunded and the other school was 454 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.280 overfunded. Oh. And I was supposed to--I and the committee members 455 00:40:14.540 --> 00:40:17.720 from the other two schools called-- 456 00:40:20.120 --> 00:40:24.530 well, we each had a committee of three, myself and two go 457 00:40:24.530 --> 00:40:28.070 from here and the other two schools--they were called a Committee of Nine. 458 00:40:30.260 --> 00:40:35.260 And so we started analyzing the cost of education. 459 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:41.800 And what really turned out instead of settling the 460 00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:43.750 argument, this Committee of Nine 461 00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:52.100 really got the three universities to get together. 462 00:40:53.810 --> 00:40:58.370 Instead of squabbling with each other joined 463 00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:03.400 together on what the need, financial need, was. So we did a lot of 464 00:41:04.970 --> 00:41:09.970 good in that sector[?] in Des Moines. At that time, 465 00:41:12.710 --> 00:41:16.110 and that was 1960, 466 00:41:18.170 --> 00:41:18.950 at that time, 467 00:41:21.500 --> 00:41:26.500 the regents were very prestigious. And the 468 00:41:28.080 --> 00:41:31.040 universities were very prestigious in the state of 469 00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:36.040 Iowa and were well supported. But in the ensuing years since then--. 470 00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:43.760 So I became vice president for business and finance in 471 00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:49.460 1966 and when I took office I hired Warren Madden to 472 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:59.480 be my assistant. So I stayed in the vice president's job 473 00:42:02.040 --> 00:42:07.040 for business for fourteen years and then I became vice 474 00:42:08.040 --> 00:42:10.380 president for our development for a period of 475 00:42:10.380 --> 00:42:15.380 five years and I retired in 1989. 476 00:42:19.130 --> 00:42:21.290 Nineteen eighty-nine, yep. 477 00:42:24.150 --> 00:42:28.060 And then I had gotten this park started so 478 00:42:31.160 --> 00:42:36.160 I--on the day I quit I had a--building one was the only building 479 00:42:37.050 --> 00:42:42.050 in the park at that time, but it had an office there. And 480 00:42:42.720 --> 00:42:47.340 since that time we built building two, and building three, 481 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:52.760 and building four. bought building five and bought building six 482 00:42:54.350 --> 00:42:57.140 that had been built and were already here. 483 00:42:59.620 --> 00:43:02.390 How did that turn out with your--with the 484 00:43:02.680 --> 00:43:05.830 committee of three and the Committee of Nine? How did that--? 485 00:43:06.490 --> 00:43:08.560 How'd that turn out? Yes. Well, 486 00:43:13.180 --> 00:43:18.180 politics, the way it operates is somebody in the 487 00:43:20.740 --> 00:43:21.820 legislature--. 488 00:43:24.900 --> 00:43:29.900 Well, things were changing. For instance, community 489 00:43:30.040 --> 00:43:35.040 colleges didn't exist in my time in sixty-six when I 490 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:40.880 became vice president, but they began to put more money 491 00:43:42.190 --> 00:43:47.190 into community colleges. And it was a good idea. 492 00:43:49.210 --> 00:43:52.750 It gave people a chance to get better 493 00:43:52.750 --> 00:43:57.750 education and better jobs and so on. But the money--. 494 00:44:02.570 --> 00:44:06.320 I think what the Committee of Nine did really was get-- 495 00:44:07.010 --> 00:44:11.210 help to get people thinking more about post high 496 00:44:11.210 --> 00:44:16.040 school education. And so although it 497 00:44:19.520 --> 00:44:24.520 resulted in spreading the money thinner--and it's 498 00:44:25.590 --> 00:44:30.590 still sort of that way--the state support of higher 499 00:44:32.500 --> 00:44:37.500 education kind of disappeared, went down to a much 500 00:44:38.530 --> 00:44:42.470 lower level. And the result of that was, 501 00:44:42.470 --> 00:44:47.470 of course, tuitions went sky high. And year after 502 00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:54.560 year there would be double digit increases in 503 00:44:54.650 --> 00:44:59.650 tuition. And so, it's a mixed blessing. Depends 504 00:45:01.130 --> 00:45:05.720 on where you stand. Whether you want to be supportive of 505 00:45:05.720 --> 00:45:08.220 community colleges or whether you want to be 506 00:45:08.240 --> 00:45:13.220 supportive of the universities themselves. And, 507 00:45:15.190 --> 00:45:19.480 well, the battle is still going on. Yes, it is. Yeah. 508 00:45:23.730 --> 00:45:25.920 How did you become the assistant vice president 509 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:27.630 for business affairs? How did you get that 510 00:45:27.630 --> 00:45:32.630 position? That was--Dr. Hilton decided that 511 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:40.070 I should have an office over in Beardshear. 512 00:45:45.770 --> 00:45:50.750 I had a title of cost analyst for a while and 513 00:45:50.750 --> 00:45:51.140 then 514 00:45:53.450 --> 00:45:56.660 Mr. Platt was vice president for business and 515 00:45:56.660 --> 00:46:00.720 finance and he was getting near retirement. 516 00:46:04.520 --> 00:46:09.260 So some people began to think in Beardshear, 517 00:46:10.730 --> 00:46:15.250 Dr. Parks was one of them, that they had to start thinking about a 518 00:46:15.250 --> 00:46:20.250 replacement for when Boyne Platt retired. So I was one 519 00:46:22.470 --> 00:46:25.440 of the people they were looking at plus a 520 00:46:26.690 --> 00:46:31.600 couple others in the business office. But I think they 521 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:35.950 kind of wanted to get me close to the vice 522 00:46:35.950 --> 00:46:38.940 president for business so they could see how I 523 00:46:38.990 --> 00:46:42.980 was doing and so on. So that's how that worked out. 524 00:46:44.270 --> 00:46:49.270 What were your duties while you were assistant? Oh, mostly 525 00:46:49.350 --> 00:46:50.700 budget figures. 526 00:46:54.170 --> 00:46:54.860 We were-- 527 00:46:57.110 --> 00:47:01.550 we were always planning for the next year, you might say, 528 00:47:02.510 --> 00:47:06.580 and in planning you would assign 529 00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:13.910 certain people for--to pick out the 530 00:47:13.910 --> 00:47:18.020 programs that were going to be new programs if there were going to 531 00:47:18.020 --> 00:47:22.450 be some and how you're going to finance them if you wanted 532 00:47:22.450 --> 00:47:27.450 to put them in the program. So most of my 533 00:47:28.910 --> 00:47:29.320 work 534 00:47:31.950 --> 00:47:36.950 was, at the basic level, was budgeting, budgeting 535 00:47:37.350 --> 00:47:42.350 money. But that, of course, spread out into a lot of 536 00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:47.780 miscellaneous things like student riots and 537 00:47:50.750 --> 00:47:54.170 lots of different things I can't even recall[?] that didn't 538 00:47:54.180 --> 00:47:59.180 have anything much to do with money. But Dr. Parks was a 539 00:48:00.940 --> 00:48:05.940 marvelous president and he had a real knack for knowing how to 540 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:13.000 delegate. So we'd have weekly meetings of the vice 541 00:48:16.570 --> 00:48:18.580 presidents, at that time there were four, 542 00:48:24.230 --> 00:48:27.220 and at those weekly meetings we would sort of program 543 00:48:27.220 --> 00:48:32.220 what was ahead of us, what our problems were, who was going to work on them and 544 00:48:32.600 --> 00:48:37.600 so on. And it worked out just fine. It was a great period 545 00:48:41.380 --> 00:48:45.060 in my life, that was one of the great interim periods of my life 546 00:48:45.070 --> 00:48:48.650 was as the vice president of Dr. Parks. 547 00:48:56.820 --> 00:48:58.860 What were your other impressions of Dr. Parks? 548 00:49:00.120 --> 00:49:05.120 Since we're talking about him right now, what did you--? Well, basically 549 00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:08.220 I said it in that he was a great-- 550 00:49:10.680 --> 00:49:15.680 he delegated very astutely, quite smart. And he-- 551 00:49:23.950 --> 00:49:27.040 I think of a period of time he was president as 552 00:49:27.050 --> 00:49:32.050 sort of the golden age of Iowa State because you never had 553 00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:37.480 the feeling that somebody was out to get you. And 554 00:49:38.680 --> 00:49:39.280 there was a 555 00:49:41.290 --> 00:49:45.610 great feeling among the vice presidents 556 00:49:48.910 --> 00:49:49.300 that 557 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:56.360 Dr. Parks was a great leader. And then the 558 00:49:56.530 --> 00:49:58.710 organizational setup was basically the 559 00:50:01.940 --> 00:50:06.340 four vice presidents and then the deans of each college. 560 00:50:07.210 --> 00:50:11.260 And there was--we added one or two colleges during 561 00:50:11.260 --> 00:50:12.940 that time. And, 562 00:50:15.310 --> 00:50:16.060 so, 563 00:50:18.160 --> 00:50:21.400 it's hard to describe, but it was just things were 564 00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:26.400 going so smoothly organization-wise. We had all 565 00:50:27.490 --> 00:50:31.430 kinds of money problems. We always did. Oh yeah. 566 00:50:32.530 --> 00:50:34.750 Well, what kind of problems? What kind of money problems? Well, 567 00:50:39.890 --> 00:50:43.440 the legislature had committees 568 00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:49.040 that were to sit and listen to the requests 569 00:50:49.040 --> 00:50:54.040 for funding from the various universities and 570 00:50:56.500 --> 00:51:01.490 other things like highway programs and non-educational things. 571 00:51:05.390 --> 00:51:08.300 So we always had to prepare 572 00:51:12.410 --> 00:51:15.860 for those kind of meetings. And 573 00:51:19.520 --> 00:51:24.520 the vice presidents that we had at that time with George Christensen and 574 00:51:24.650 --> 00:51:25.350 Carl Hamilton 575 00:51:28.220 --> 00:51:28.790 and 576 00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:36.160 we just seemed to get along so well. 577 00:51:39.020 --> 00:51:42.070 There was never any problems and, as I say, we never 578 00:51:42.070 --> 00:51:46.960 had a feeling that someone was going to come up and stab you in 579 00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:47.370 the back. 580 00:51:49.810 --> 00:51:53.440 Everybody was working for the same goal--the welfare of the 581 00:51:53.530 --> 00:51:55.870 university. And, 582 00:51:58.030 --> 00:52:03.030 also, I was toward the end of my--getting closer to 583 00:52:04.180 --> 00:52:04.900 retirement, 584 00:52:06.910 --> 00:52:10.930 I was interested in economic development and 585 00:52:11.740 --> 00:52:16.230 helping Iowa State, the state of Iowa, economically. 586 00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:23.840 And at that time, I had visited the Stanford 587 00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:35.400 Committee on--I gotta think for a moment--but, the research park 588 00:52:36.790 --> 00:52:41.790 was an idea that I thought would help here so I got the 589 00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:46.920 research park started. And the day I retired from the university 590 00:52:48.470 --> 00:52:52.050 I had an office out in building one here, which 591 00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:57.310 was the only building that was here at the time. And so 592 00:52:57.310 --> 00:53:01.300 I've been watching the research during my retired 593 00:53:01.300 --> 00:53:06.300 years and I don't run anything here, Steve Carter 594 00:53:07.810 --> 00:53:08.880 is the president, but 595 00:53:11.050 --> 00:53:16.050 I'm on the board of directors of the research park. And 596 00:53:16.300 --> 00:53:20.020 it's been doing well since it started. What 597 00:53:20.020 --> 00:53:22.870 were the goals of the research park? What did you 598 00:53:22.870 --> 00:53:24.880 hope to accomplish? Well, 599 00:53:28.150 --> 00:53:29.830 We have a--we have a 600 00:53:33.550 --> 00:53:38.550 mission statement which is on that, but the goals 601 00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:43.720 as stated in the mission statement to provide an 602 00:53:44.380 --> 00:53:49.090 environment that encourages the creation of new 603 00:53:49.090 --> 00:53:52.600 companies that are based upon discoveries-- 604 00:53:53.710 --> 00:53:58.710 scientific discoveries--of the university. That's basic, 605 00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:05.280 but it can go on beyond that. And so it is about fifty 606 00:54:06.190 --> 00:54:11.190 little companies out here trying to make a go of it. Some of them 607 00:54:11.660 --> 00:54:16.660 are doing very well and some won't make it, but 608 00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:21.960 this provides the environment and the knowledge of 609 00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.850 how to get started because a professor 610 00:54:26.650 --> 00:54:29.880 usually doesn't know anything about the business world. 611 00:54:31.060 --> 00:54:35.470 And there's always that lack of communication and this is 612 00:54:35.470 --> 00:54:40.470 what the park is for, to help the promoter of an idea or 613 00:54:44.550 --> 00:54:48.900 a product, help them get started and find out 614 00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:51.950 whether he's got a good idea or whether it's 615 00:54:52.410 --> 00:54:56.310 something he should just forget about. And is 616 00:54:56.310 --> 00:54:59.920 there some sort of program where if somebody starts, I guess, 617 00:55:01.040 --> 00:55:05.040 if somebody starts a project out here and they do 618 00:55:05.040 --> 00:55:08.660 very very well do they move on out of here-- Some have. --or do they stay? Yeah. 619 00:55:09.570 --> 00:55:10.360 We have a few here that have 620 00:55:12.820 --> 00:55:13.110 done that, yeah. 621 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:22.880 There are several successful companies, but 622 00:55:23.910 --> 00:55:28.910 I wouldn't say that we have run across the 623 00:55:29.770 --> 00:55:30.110 whiz-bang 624 00:55:33.750 --> 00:55:34.740 company like 625 00:55:36.990 --> 00:55:37.750 Microsoft or something like that. 626 00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:44.920 But Iowa needs help in encouraging startup 627 00:55:48.030 --> 00:55:49.690 companies and that's what this is all about. Good. 628 00:55:57.030 --> 00:55:59.550 What other initiatives did you work on while you 629 00:55:59.550 --> 00:56:01.680 were at Iowa State? What other 630 00:56:03.850 --> 00:56:06.400 projects did you--? Oh. Well, 631 00:56:11.610 --> 00:56:16.610 I had a visit from my counterpart from Northern 632 00:56:18.270 --> 00:56:22.970 Illinois University and they had a free bus system there. 633 00:56:23.620 --> 00:56:28.620 And we had here city-owned buses and it was 634 00:56:32.590 --> 00:56:33.560 underfunded and 635 00:56:35.990 --> 00:56:40.990 losing money and wasn't doing very well. So, I formed 636 00:56:46.310 --> 00:56:49.780 a committee of students to join--to develop a 637 00:56:54.540 --> 00:56:59.540 bus system based on student fees and I figured a student 638 00:57:00.660 --> 00:57:05.660 group would be more successful working on doing 639 00:57:05.700 --> 00:57:10.700 their own thing than somebody telling them here's something you oughta do. 640 00:57:13.080 --> 00:57:16.640 So they did and CyRide is the result of that. 641 00:57:17.230 --> 00:57:21.530 Oh wow. And it's got 642 00:57:23.860 --> 00:57:28.860 Ames got rewarded city of the year a couple of 643 00:57:29.020 --> 00:57:33.160 years ago--several years ago--and so the CyRide 644 00:57:33.160 --> 00:57:33.930 system is so. 645 00:57:36.330 --> 00:57:38.230 And it's stable, it's running, 646 00:57:40.670 --> 00:57:45.400 and not losing too much money, I guess. And I've stepped out it 647 00:57:45.410 --> 00:57:50.410 I don't know, I'm not involved with it anymore. But I got it started. Oh great. 648 00:57:51.330 --> 00:57:51.690 And 649 00:57:53.870 --> 00:57:58.870 so I guess that's the main thing. Were you also involved in the 650 00:57:59.310 --> 00:58:00.720 creation of the Gateway Center? 651 00:58:03.230 --> 00:58:08.230 Gateway--. The Gateway. Oh yeah, yeah. The hotel. Yeah. How did that come about? 652 00:58:10.310 --> 00:58:15.310 Well. We were--this was during an expansion 653 00:58:15.640 --> 00:58:20.640 period. The growth of--the baby boomers were 654 00:58:22.350 --> 00:58:27.350 coming to college at that time and Hilton, Dr. Hilton 655 00:58:30.860 --> 00:58:31.550 had a dream of a 656 00:58:34.070 --> 00:58:39.070 center, a cultural center. And 657 00:58:41.690 --> 00:58:46.250 also he wanted to--and the cultural center is made up 658 00:58:46.250 --> 00:58:50.520 of Stephens Auditorium and Hilton Coliseum, and so on. 659 00:58:51.770 --> 00:58:56.770 He wanted a hotel, too, but didn't 660 00:58:57.650 --> 00:59:01.670 have money for a hotel, so what we did was we 661 00:59:01.670 --> 00:59:02.240 raised 662 00:59:04.370 --> 00:59:09.370 from about twenty-five alums to invest twenty-five 663 00:59:09.470 --> 00:59:13.700 thousand dollars apiece. And we take that money 664 00:59:14.120 --> 00:59:19.120 and go get a loan and build a hotel. And 665 00:59:21.740 --> 00:59:25.430 at that time there was no classy hotel at all 666 00:59:27.710 --> 00:59:32.710 in Ames. And people said, well, we don't need a hotel. 667 00:59:34.850 --> 00:59:37.790 Well, that wasn't the answer we wanted, so 668 00:59:41.130 --> 00:59:45.210 we got the company started. And 669 00:59:48.220 --> 00:59:49.990 there were a couple of critical 670 00:59:52.260 --> 00:59:57.260 editorials about myself and Carl Hamilton, 671 00:59:58.000 --> 00:59:59.110 the other--one of the other vice presidents. 672 01:00:01.700 --> 01:00:02.930 This 673 01:00:05.210 --> 01:00:07.780 editorial hinted that we were making money 674 01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:14.380 and all sort of things. So 675 01:00:17.260 --> 01:00:21.160 I wrote to the Des Moines Register and told them they 676 01:00:21.160 --> 01:00:24.820 could buy my shares if they wanted for what I paid for them and 677 01:00:25.780 --> 01:00:30.780 never got an answer to that. But, anyway, the hotel 678 01:00:31.150 --> 01:00:36.150 got started in 1972 and it almost went broke a 679 01:00:39.810 --> 01:00:44.660 couple of times. Then we got a fellow in to turn it 680 01:00:44.670 --> 01:00:49.670 around and he stayed for the next twenty-five years and made 681 01:00:50.790 --> 01:00:55.780 it one of the leading hotels in the state. What was his name? 682 01:00:58.040 --> 01:01:03.040 His name was Dave Percival[?] and he lives somewhere in 683 01:01:03.230 --> 01:01:04.050 Georgia now, I think, something like that. 684 01:01:06.700 --> 01:01:11.410 He did a turn around on it, you might say, and did a wonderful job. He saved it. 685 01:01:18.750 --> 01:01:23.640 So, yeah, that was our hotel. What we did--and the tax 686 01:01:23.640 --> 01:01:27.010 laws are a little different now--but what we did, each 687 01:01:27.030 --> 01:01:31.640 people invested twenty-five thousand dollars--and I 688 01:01:31.700 --> 01:01:32.150 was one of them-- 689 01:01:35.730 --> 01:01:40.730 we got them all to give that investment to 690 01:01:41.210 --> 01:01:46.210 the Iowa State Found--the ISU Foundation. So the 691 01:01:46.240 --> 01:01:51.160 ISU Foundation owns the hotel because of the 692 01:01:51.160 --> 01:01:56.160 gifts that we each did. Oh. And 693 01:01:59.350 --> 01:02:03.370 a few years ago they were getting--they got a few board 694 01:02:03.370 --> 01:02:06.280 members on the Iowa State Foundation who said we're 695 01:02:06.280 --> 01:02:08.460 not in the hotel business we better sell it. 696 01:02:10.030 --> 01:02:14.360 There ended up a big dog fight about that. And every 697 01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:19.400 once in a while it comes up. They say, well, and we had some 698 01:02:21.820 --> 01:02:22.630 supporters 699 01:02:25.080 --> 01:02:30.080 in among the group that funded it in the first place. And it 700 01:02:31.860 --> 01:02:34.530 makes a good profit for the foundation. 701 01:02:37.890 --> 01:02:39.330 And it 702 01:02:41.910 --> 01:02:43.260 raised the level of 703 01:02:47.910 --> 01:02:52.910 doing business in Ames, Iowa, in such a way that it 704 01:02:54.150 --> 01:02:57.000 really helped the whole community to be a first 705 01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:02.000 class community. And, so, yeah, that's Gateway. 706 01:03:34.130 --> 01:03:36.130 [sounds of switching tape on recorder] 707 01:03:36.130 --> 01:03:36.130 Everything is still going all right? 708 01:03:36.130 --> 01:03:40.300 Yes, everything's going fine. OK. And that was 709 01:03:40.300 --> 01:03:43.250 the Gateway. That's how the Gateway began? Yeah. 710 01:03:46.660 --> 01:03:49.480 I also saw that you were behind the establishment 711 01:03:49.480 --> 01:03:52.720 of the stadium, Jack Trice, or as it was called, Cyclone 712 01:03:52.720 --> 01:03:53.200 Stadium. 713 01:03:56.170 --> 01:04:01.170 How did--how did that come about, too? Well, the 714 01:04:01.820 --> 01:04:05.170 football games used to be played at Clyde Williams Field, 715 01:04:05.390 --> 01:04:10.390 which was an old stadium up on the hill, and 716 01:04:13.720 --> 01:04:18.180 it was decrepit and running down and something-- 717 01:04:19.790 --> 01:04:24.790 something had to be done. So, I was part of a 718 01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:28.770 committee that contained some alums and 719 01:04:30.870 --> 01:04:35.630 some staff members here to build a new stadium. 720 01:04:38.120 --> 01:04:43.120 So, this was under the Parks regime. So 721 01:04:46.210 --> 01:04:51.210 we raised some money in a fund drive to start to 722 01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:56.800 build a stadium and so we built it on the cuff, 723 01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:02.920 you might say. And the first game was Air Force 724 01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:07.700 and I've forgotten what year it is. 725 01:05:09.900 --> 01:05:11.080 But you can look it up. Yeah. 726 01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:18.800 So it was promoted by this committee and it was 727 01:05:20.420 --> 01:05:25.420 funded by the contributions that had been raised, which wasn't 728 01:05:28.700 --> 01:05:32.080 enough to fund it. We built it on the cuff, you might say. 729 01:05:37.850 --> 01:05:41.840 And, so, it was worthwhile to build it at that time 730 01:05:42.110 --> 01:05:47.110 because cost's recessive. We have a stadium 731 01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:51.160 that we paid seven and a half million dollars for 732 01:05:54.170 --> 01:05:56.340 that's worth forty or fifty million now. 733 01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:03.860 So, it was a good time to build it and not everybody felt 734 01:06:04.040 --> 01:06:08.110 comfortable about doing it at that time, but it was the right 735 01:06:08.110 --> 01:06:11.600 thing to do. Was there a lot of people who were 736 01:06:11.720 --> 01:06:15.910 attached to Clyde Williams Stadium or--? Not so much 737 01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:20.090 attached to Clyde Williams Field, but they just felt 738 01:06:20.090 --> 01:06:25.090 we didn't need a stadium that nice. And so, 739 01:06:27.620 --> 01:06:29.130 you might say Clyde Williams Field was-- 740 01:06:32.260 --> 01:06:36.550 really wasn't the class of stadium that we 741 01:06:36.550 --> 01:06:41.550 needed. And there are always people who say, well, that's 742 01:06:43.990 --> 01:06:48.990 good enough for us as a--. Well, as Jamie Pollard is 743 01:06:50.140 --> 01:06:54.790 trying to point out now, it isn't good enough for us. 744 01:06:54.810 --> 01:06:58.560 We need--we need something better in the total athletic 745 01:06:58.670 --> 01:07:01.750 program. And he's trying to do that. 746 01:07:09.450 --> 01:07:11.780 You mentioned something about student protests-- 747 01:07:11.780 --> 01:07:14.760 student riots--that you had to deal with that as 748 01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:18.690 well. How did--what happened? Was 749 01:07:18.690 --> 01:07:23.690 it the Vietnam riots? Well, yeah. Okay. It was Vietnam. And this was in the sixties, 750 01:07:29.380 --> 01:07:30.710 and you know what the sixties were like. 751 01:07:33.090 --> 01:07:38.090 And, so, the worst thing to happen is is a group of 752 01:07:38.490 --> 01:07:41.990 students got together and Marched over to 753 01:07:42.860 --> 01:07:43.210 the-- 754 01:07:48.070 --> 01:07:50.890 what's the name of that building--the armory-- The armory, okay. 755 01:07:50.890 --> 01:07:55.890 -and marched over to the Armory had a sit in, in essence. 756 01:07:58.940 --> 01:08:01.190 And that's about the worst thing that happened here. We never stopped 757 01:08:02.020 --> 01:08:07.020 classes or anything like that, but it did arouse 758 01:08:08.070 --> 01:08:08.680 quite a mess. 759 01:08:11.080 --> 01:08:16.080 I was called to Des Moines to explain what was going on to 760 01:08:18.190 --> 01:08:23.190 the attorney general-- Oh! --of the state of Iowa and, oh, 761 01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:24.550 he-- 762 01:08:28.500 --> 01:08:32.620 he was quite insulting. He said, you bunch of softies up there, you don't know 763 01:08:32.860 --> 01:08:37.740 how to handle anything. He said, you should get the football team in 764 01:08:37.740 --> 01:08:42.740 there and chase them out. Really? Yes. Well, 765 01:08:45.830 --> 01:08:50.600 I came back home with that message, told Dr. Parks and then we told 766 01:08:51.810 --> 01:08:56.190 Stan Redeker, who was a furniture owner over in Boone and 767 01:08:56.190 --> 01:09:00.970 president of the Board of Regents at that time. And when I told him that the 768 01:09:01.890 --> 01:09:05.380 state attorney general suggested we get the football team to drive them out 769 01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:09.050 he says, the Iowa State football team? 770 01:09:12.250 --> 01:09:12.740 [laughter] Anyway. 771 01:09:17.350 --> 01:09:21.960 That was one of those little things that comes up, you know. 772 01:09:24.560 --> 01:09:28.630 Doesn't have anything to do with money, exactly, but you're involved. 773 01:09:28.730 --> 01:09:33.330 And that was the way Dr. Parks worked. 774 01:09:36.670 --> 01:09:40.640 He let you have your head if you were doing the right 775 01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:42.360 thing, and so 776 01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:45.490 we got along wonderfully well. 777 01:09:49.130 --> 01:09:51.580 Were there any other incidents on campus? 778 01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:01.850 I think there were some minor incidents, but right 779 01:10:01.910 --> 01:10:06.350 now I can't recall any specific details. But 780 01:10:08.690 --> 01:10:13.690 I do remember several student gatherings here on 781 01:10:14.580 --> 01:10:19.230 the front steps of Beardshear or out in the 782 01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:22.040 grassy area by the flagpole. 783 01:10:27.610 --> 01:10:30.600 But, we end--we didn't have any tragedies of any 784 01:10:30.610 --> 01:10:35.330 kind. We were fortunate, of course, in that regard. 785 01:10:38.360 --> 01:10:38.770 Very. Yep. 786 01:10:45.800 --> 01:10:49.580 Oh. I guess this kind of goes into that. What were 787 01:10:49.580 --> 01:10:51.740 your thoughts about the campus climate? How did it 788 01:10:51.740 --> 01:10:54.350 differ from when you were a student during the 789 01:10:54.350 --> 01:10:56.120 World--during the Vietnam War? How did that 790 01:10:56.120 --> 01:10:58.790 differ from when you were a student during right before World 791 01:10:58.790 --> 01:11:03.790 War II? How did the--? You mean the students right after World War II 792 01:11:04.320 --> 01:11:05.570 compared to-- Yeah. --the Vietnam War, right? 793 01:11:08.150 --> 01:11:08.440 Well. 794 01:11:12.980 --> 01:11:15.890 Even when I became vice president in sixty-six, 795 01:11:19.550 --> 01:11:22.890 female students still had to be in the dorm by ten o'clock. 796 01:11:24.990 --> 01:11:29.990 So there was a lot of changes during my period. 797 01:11:32.580 --> 01:11:37.580 Even when I became vice president in sixty-six, ROTC was still 798 01:11:39.780 --> 01:11:44.780 required of all freshman and sophomore male students, not 799 01:11:45.090 --> 01:11:50.090 female students. That changed. So it's kind of 800 01:11:54.630 --> 01:11:57.360 interesting the significant changes when you look 801 01:11:57.360 --> 01:12:00.690 back and see what they were. They seemed radical at 802 01:12:00.690 --> 01:12:05.690 the time and now we're living with them just as if we--as 803 01:12:06.840 --> 01:12:11.840 if they existed forever. But I think that's what 804 01:12:12.360 --> 01:12:15.960 happens when you look back and begin to really see 805 01:12:17.080 --> 01:12:21.600 the significance of the changes that have been made. And I 806 01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:23.720 guess I would say they're all mostly for the good. 807 01:12:25.950 --> 01:12:30.240 I can't tell you anything I would have changed 808 01:12:30.240 --> 01:12:33.500 back even if I had the opportunity. 809 01:12:38.490 --> 01:12:40.830 What have you been doing since you retired? I know you 810 01:12:40.830 --> 01:12:43.340 talked about spending time at the research park 811 01:12:43.380 --> 01:12:45.810 but what else have you been doing? Well, 812 01:12:53.430 --> 01:12:54.600 Let me see. 813 01:12:58.480 --> 01:13:00.650 Well, I used to--I 814 01:13:02.660 --> 01:13:07.660 got a dog just about the time I retired and 815 01:13:09.410 --> 01:13:14.410 raised him. We went for hikes every morning. And 816 01:13:18.690 --> 01:13:22.950 that was good for me and good for him. So, 817 01:13:25.190 --> 01:13:29.110 that was one of my activities. Another one. 818 01:13:35.550 --> 01:13:39.460 I used to do a little 819 01:13:41.930 --> 01:13:43.490 window shopping, you might say. 820 01:13:48.440 --> 01:13:52.070 Nothing very serious, I don't--I didn't buy a lot 821 01:13:52.070 --> 01:13:57.020 of things, but I did enjoy walking up and down the 822 01:13:57.020 --> 01:14:01.910 street--Main Street. Then, 823 01:14:08.830 --> 01:14:13.830 I belong to a breakfast club that meets every 824 01:14:14.280 --> 01:14:16.800 Saturday morning and 825 01:14:19.210 --> 01:14:22.620 you get to know people in an organization like that. 826 01:14:24.850 --> 01:14:26.220 And so. 827 01:14:33.110 --> 01:14:37.180 Did you want to take a break for a few minutes or--? Oh no, I'm fine. 828 01:14:38.040 --> 01:14:40.070 Okay. Do you want a break? Oh no, I'm fine. I'm just--. 829 01:14:42.240 --> 01:14:46.810 So, I like to--I like to talk with people, meet them and so on, 830 01:14:46.880 --> 01:14:51.160 and so that's one of the reasons, probably, 831 01:14:53.770 --> 01:14:58.650 that I enjoy this office. It has the remnants of my 832 01:15:00.390 --> 01:15:05.390 experience with being vice president and 833 01:15:08.650 --> 01:15:12.020 it keeps me in contact with the group of people 834 01:15:14.230 --> 01:15:19.000 who are running the park and I can just sort of sit here 835 01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:23.780 and watch the world go by, you might say. The 836 01:15:23.780 --> 01:15:28.150 park is doing well and so I'm kind of happy to 837 01:15:33.800 --> 01:15:37.100 come over here a couple, three times a week 838 01:15:39.410 --> 01:15:44.410 and see what's going on. I don't--I don't run anything 839 01:15:45.710 --> 01:15:49.040 and I don't--I can't tell you what's going on business 840 01:15:49.040 --> 01:15:52.820 wise, whether the park is going to take on 841 01:15:52.850 --> 01:15:53.430 a new--a new 842 01:15:56.230 --> 01:15:59.910 tenant or not. I have nothing to do with it. 843 01:16:02.860 --> 01:16:06.880 How would you characterize the great amount of 844 01:16:06.880 --> 01:16:09.340 growth that was going on during your tenure at Iowa 845 01:16:09.340 --> 01:16:14.170 State? While you were here--the buildings, the 846 01:16:16.360 --> 01:16:19.020 expansion of classes--how would you characterize 847 01:16:19.020 --> 01:16:19.730 that? Well. 848 01:16:22.010 --> 01:16:22.970 Mostly 849 01:16:26.110 --> 01:16:28.340 Iowa has 850 01:16:30.920 --> 01:16:33.800 extremely good-- 851 01:16:36.830 --> 01:16:41.270 the State of Iowa physically is a very comfortable place 852 01:16:41.270 --> 01:16:46.270 to live. And there are some people who don't care 853 01:16:47.690 --> 01:16:52.670 for the four seasons, they like one season. But most 854 01:16:52.670 --> 01:16:56.300 people do because the changing seasons is a refreshing 855 01:16:56.300 --> 01:16:56.660 thing. 856 01:16:58.700 --> 01:17:03.290 Iowa is very much a state in which people mostly 857 01:17:03.310 --> 01:17:07.850 say, I like it the way it is. And 858 01:17:11.450 --> 01:17:11.800 that's 859 01:17:14.220 --> 01:17:17.810 sort of a dangerous thing to think about because 860 01:17:19.350 --> 01:17:22.860 things don't change--or don't stay the way they are, 861 01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:28.520 they do change and you always have to be ready to 862 01:17:29.700 --> 01:17:34.700 accept that change or if you don't want it move 863 01:17:35.340 --> 01:17:35.580 out or do something. 864 01:17:37.590 --> 01:17:41.580 And so Iowa is sort of a backwards state when it 865 01:17:41.580 --> 01:17:45.690 comes to development because 866 01:17:47.780 --> 01:17:50.920 mostly because we have a satisfied customer who 867 01:17:51.530 --> 01:17:56.530 like it. And so that's a danger that we have to work with. 868 01:18:02.320 --> 01:18:06.420 Each community needs to have somebody who's 869 01:18:06.530 --> 01:18:11.350 always thinking about something new in order that 870 01:18:12.280 --> 01:18:17.280 people can hear good ideas, new ideas, and 871 01:18:17.470 --> 01:18:21.790 who can join in the change if it's worthwhile 872 01:18:22.720 --> 01:18:27.530 and then stomp it out if it's not worthwhile. And debate 873 01:18:27.540 --> 01:18:28.190 the difference. 874 01:18:30.210 --> 01:18:33.000 Argue out the differences. So it's-- 875 01:18:35.350 --> 01:18:40.350 I lived in New York, which I didn't mention, after I 876 01:18:40.990 --> 01:18:45.990 came back from the service--let's see, when was it--1950. 877 01:18:47.300 --> 01:18:52.300 I went to Columbia University on a scholarship. 878 01:18:53.840 --> 01:18:58.790 And then three or four summers after that I 879 01:18:58.790 --> 01:19:03.790 spent a whole year, fifty fifty-one, living in New York and 880 01:19:04.070 --> 01:19:05.570 going to Columbia University. 881 01:19:07.710 --> 01:19:08.430 And 882 01:19:10.470 --> 01:19:12.780 I was very glad to get back to Iowa. 883 01:19:15.710 --> 01:19:19.630 Meanwhile, people in New York often wonder what there 884 01:19:19.640 --> 01:19:20.900 is about Iowa and 885 01:19:22.930 --> 01:19:26.860 most of them haven't seen anything west of the Hudson 886 01:19:26.860 --> 01:19:31.860 River. They really haven't. They just don't know what it's like. 887 01:19:33.960 --> 01:19:34.760 I've talked with them. 888 01:19:36.820 --> 01:19:40.260 Tried to tell them what it's like. 889 01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:47.160 When a New Yorker comes out here, and some quite often do 890 01:19:47.190 --> 01:19:48.980 to continue on at the university[?], you know, 891 01:19:51.390 --> 01:19:56.180 I notice that a lot of them, they either love it or they hate it. 892 01:19:58.210 --> 01:19:58.500 And 893 01:20:02.030 --> 01:20:05.510 that's kind of the way New Yorkers are, they're so insulated, 894 01:20:06.370 --> 01:20:11.370 they don't know what's out there, in terms of living. And that's not 895 01:20:11.840 --> 01:20:13.690 unusual because they haven't been here, 896 01:20:17.380 --> 01:20:22.380 but it does bring out in people what it is they like to 897 01:20:22.490 --> 01:20:26.490 have as values--and if green grass and open spaces 898 01:20:27.360 --> 01:20:29.580 are thrilling they'll love it. 899 01:20:31.890 --> 01:20:36.890 But if it's not, basically it's not a very exciting 900 01:20:37.290 --> 01:20:37.730 state. 901 01:20:45.190 --> 01:20:49.220 And that's one of the problems Iowa has with keeping 902 01:20:49.220 --> 01:20:50.900 up with the times and 903 01:20:54.660 --> 01:20:58.170 making things happen. They're 904 01:20:58.290 --> 01:21:03.050 too comfortable. On the average most Iowans are too comfortable. 905 01:21:05.290 --> 01:21:10.290 Yes. And I say that having been born and raised in Iowa. 906 01:21:11.390 --> 01:21:12.910 But I got--I got things stirred up. Oh, good! 907 01:21:20.110 --> 01:21:21.820 What were your first impressions of Iowa State 908 01:21:21.850 --> 01:21:23.920 when you first came to campus? What did you think 909 01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:28.920 of the campus? Oh, I was bowled over with it, I mean, it was so 910 01:21:30.360 --> 01:21:35.000 awesome, it seemed like to me. I was just a--I'm a farm kid 911 01:21:35.310 --> 01:21:38.620 and I wasn't used to--wasn't used to big buildings 912 01:21:40.360 --> 01:21:45.360 and seeing professors who were world--worldwide 913 01:21:47.010 --> 01:21:52.010 known. And so I was awed, you might say. Meanwhile I 914 01:21:55.930 --> 01:22:00.930 enjoyed it, I enjoyed life. After my first quarter here I 915 01:22:02.940 --> 01:22:07.940 had a grade point average of three point two, or something like that, which I didn't think was very good. 916 01:22:10.410 --> 01:22:15.410 But I found out that that was one of the top averages 917 01:22:20.120 --> 01:22:25.120 and it kind of impressed me with the fact that I had--I had 918 01:22:27.530 --> 01:22:30.710 opportunities. There were opportunities here that I could 919 01:22:30.960 --> 01:22:35.960 have and did take advantage of. And I always came 920 01:22:37.670 --> 01:22:41.930 back to Ames. I went away to World War II and came back. Japan and came back. 921 01:22:42.170 --> 01:22:47.170 New York, Columbia University and 922 01:22:48.440 --> 01:22:52.280 came back. So this is the place 923 01:22:54.330 --> 01:22:55.410 where I wanted to be, I guess. 924 01:22:58.740 --> 01:22:59.820 How did you meet your wife? 925 01:23:04.900 --> 01:23:09.900 I had a fraternity brother and his wife, but she worked in 926 01:23:11.100 --> 01:23:13.440 the Food Science. 927 01:23:16.100 --> 01:23:19.400 And they the three of them-- 928 01:23:23.870 --> 01:23:28.620 the fraternity brother, his wife, and her friend working in the 929 01:23:28.620 --> 01:23:33.620 food science, decided to have a fourth for bridge and 930 01:23:34.710 --> 01:23:39.710 my fraternity brother, during my graduate years here, always 931 01:23:39.890 --> 01:23:43.560 teased me about getting married. So he invited me 932 01:23:43.770 --> 01:23:48.770 to the four for bridge and the fourth was my future wife in food science who 933 01:23:50.010 --> 01:23:54.960 is a friend of his wife, see, at work. Well, that 934 01:23:55.190 --> 01:23:58.580 started it and then one new year's eve we got 935 01:24:03.630 --> 01:24:08.320 together and that's the end of the story--the end of the courtship. We got married in 936 01:24:08.650 --> 01:24:12.390 June 1955. 937 01:24:17.210 --> 01:24:20.830 And we have--I have three kids now. 938 01:24:27.420 --> 01:24:32.420 And when my wife passed away we bought a plot in the 939 01:24:33.780 --> 01:24:37.650 University Cemetery and so that's where we'll be. 940 01:24:43.500 --> 01:24:46.080 What was the most enjoyable part about being part 941 01:24:46.080 --> 01:24:49.890 of Iowa State? What did you enjoy most? What was 942 01:24:49.900 --> 01:24:52.710 the most enjoyable part? What did you enjoy most about 943 01:24:52.710 --> 01:24:54.100 being part of Iowa State? 944 01:25:07.310 --> 01:25:12.310 Oh, I guess, I would say the friends that I had. Members 945 01:25:13.520 --> 01:25:17.110 of the community and also members of the 946 01:25:20.630 --> 01:25:22.950 faculty. I think the friends that I met 947 01:25:25.540 --> 01:25:28.260 was probably my best--those were the best part of the 948 01:25:30.260 --> 01:25:31.690 years that I was there. 949 01:25:34.850 --> 01:25:38.230 What was--what did you enjoy least about being at 950 01:25:38.230 --> 01:25:38.900 Iowa State? 951 01:25:44.970 --> 01:25:46.330 Oh, let's see. 952 01:25:53.140 --> 01:25:55.180 I hesitated to 953 01:25:57.410 --> 01:26:02.270 confront people with where I disagreed. 954 01:26:05.110 --> 01:26:10.110 I would rather stay quiet rather than face up to debating 955 01:26:11.250 --> 01:26:11.530 with them. 956 01:26:15.690 --> 01:26:18.570 I understand that. Hmm? I said I understand that part. Yeah. 957 01:26:25.720 --> 01:26:28.540 Was there anything else about your career at Iowa 958 01:26:28.540 --> 01:26:31.120 State that you wanted to mention that I didn't 959 01:26:31.120 --> 01:26:31.810 ask about? 960 01:26:35.030 --> 01:26:35.410 Well. 961 01:26:39.560 --> 01:26:41.360 No offhand, I guess. 962 01:26:44.890 --> 01:26:49.720 Nothing comes to mind. I hear one of several 963 01:26:49.720 --> 01:26:54.640 things are an interest for me, but I guess I've 964 01:26:54.640 --> 01:26:59.620 covered most of them that I can think of. Why, I 965 01:26:59.620 --> 01:27:04.330 guess I have one more question. How did you-- 966 01:27:04.540 --> 01:27:06.940 did you enjoy becoming an administrator over an 967 01:27:06.940 --> 01:27:09.100 instructor or would you have rather stayed an 968 01:27:09.100 --> 01:27:11.440 administrator--or an instructor? Well, 969 01:27:15.820 --> 01:27:17.720 I liked teaching 970 01:27:20.030 --> 01:27:23.810 and being up in front of a classroom and so on 971 01:27:23.830 --> 01:27:24.020 and preparing for classes and so on. But the 972 01:27:27.270 --> 01:27:30.930 thing about administration, I got the 973 01:27:31.160 --> 01:27:36.160 feeling of understanding the broader picture of 974 01:27:37.420 --> 01:27:41.550 life. The politics of life. 975 01:27:45.170 --> 01:27:47.260 And, so I think that--. 976 01:27:52.710 --> 01:27:57.710 Well, I guess that's the politics and economics of life 977 01:27:58.950 --> 01:28:03.950 and the needs that we have and where I then generated[?] 978 01:28:05.160 --> 01:28:10.160 my ideas of what Iowa needed to do and which I still try 979 01:28:11.130 --> 01:28:16.130 to promote whenever I can. So I guess that's about it. Okay. 980 01:28:23.460 --> 01:28:26.200 If there's nothing else you'd like to say, I 981 01:28:26.200 --> 01:28:29.780 think you've answered all of my questions. Well, 982 01:28:32.970 --> 01:28:37.970 the last thing--the project sounds very interesting and I 983 01:28:40.090 --> 01:28:45.090 will be waiting to see the outcome of this hundred and 984 01:28:45.400 --> 01:28:46.070 fiftieth--it's a-- 985 01:28:49.230 --> 01:28:52.410 what do you call your project? It's the 986 01:28:52.700 --> 01:28:56.180 Iowa State University oral history project. Oral history. 987 01:28:56.240 --> 01:28:56.540 Oral history. 988 01:28:58.710 --> 01:29:01.400 We are collecting as many memories as possible. 989 01:29:03.170 --> 01:29:03.890 Well, that's good. 990 01:29:05.990 --> 01:29:10.090 Worthwhile. Thank you. And thank you so much for 991 01:29:10.280 --> 01:29:10.510 agreeing to speak.