WEBVTT 1 00:00:14.060 --> 00:00:15.190 Mine is Clyde Brown. 2 00:00:18.300 --> 00:00:23.300 That's sort of started Wednesday April 29. What 3 00:00:24.380 --> 00:00:29.380 really then. Few of us are anticipating Nixon and 4 00:00:29.990 --> 00:00:33.470 they will make some Cambodian action staged a 5 00:00:33.470 --> 00:00:36.020 demonstration inside the Commons in front of 6 00:00:36.020 --> 00:00:39.260 Marine recruiters. We say a few of us who were 7 00:00:39.260 --> 00:00:44.260 there myself. Kate Craig Jim home one. Kim Mills. 8 00:00:50.800 --> 00:00:53.860 And maybe four or five others what it amounted to 9 00:00:53.860 --> 00:00:56.710 is we just I said first of all across from the 10 00:00:56.710 --> 00:01:01.060 booth blindfolded with a sign 11 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:06.540 as the day wore wore on every so often people 12 00:01:06.570 --> 00:01:09.950 would spend an hour and then move on. Just feel 13 00:01:09.980 --> 00:01:13.330 the spent the entire day. There was no effort or 14 00:01:13.810 --> 00:01:17.740 attempt to get organized into something bigger. A 15 00:01:17.740 --> 00:01:20.440 few of us wanted to try to to say something on 16 00:01:20.440 --> 00:01:20.980 that day. 17 00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:27.670 A day later when Nixon announced the troop entry 18 00:01:27.670 --> 00:01:32.670 into Cambodia many of us well and an anticipated 19 00:01:33.980 --> 00:01:38.200 were still upset about it. At the same time many 20 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:39.760 of us had a feeling that Nixon had gone off the 21 00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:43.450 deep end and this was going to be one one step 22 00:01:43.450 --> 00:01:45.930 that the country would stand for. And finally we 23 00:01:45.970 --> 00:01:48.640 could bring the world to a conclusion 24 00:01:51.520 --> 00:01:53.290 by showing what we felt to be a myth and 25 00:01:53.310 --> 00:01:54.100 minimization. 26 00:01:56.620 --> 00:02:00.520 The following day there was a large amount of 27 00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:04.510 discussion between organizers as to whether to try 28 00:02:04.510 --> 00:02:07.870 to organize an event for Saturday May 2nd which 29 00:02:07.870 --> 00:02:10.780 eventually happened or to wait till Tuesday May 30 00:02:10.780 --> 00:02:15.340 5th or we have a prior complicity in the daily and 31 00:02:15.340 --> 00:02:20.140 hopefully working with. A decision was made that 32 00:02:20.920 --> 00:02:22.900 action to be taken immediately. How was the 33 00:02:22.900 --> 00:02:25.290 decision reached decision. 34 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:29.490 It's coming out very democratically and the 35 00:02:29.500 --> 00:02:33.880 decision is reached by three or four people myself. 36 00:02:34.480 --> 00:02:35.520 Bob Trembly. 37 00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:40.420 Primarily 38 00:02:42.820 --> 00:02:45.550 between ourselves. Just sort of decided to put out 39 00:02:45.550 --> 00:02:50.550 a call for event. The call went out and then a lot 40 00:02:50.630 --> 00:02:54.220 of people responded on Saturday with the march 41 00:02:54.220 --> 00:02:58.830 from the bandshell to the draft board. What was 42 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.870 the opposite to the rally the action to the rally. 43 00:03:03.660 --> 00:03:06.610 Was it. Well we called it a public outrage. 44 00:03:07.160 --> 00:03:09.280 Nixon's action was the way it was publicized. 45 00:03:09.970 --> 00:03:13.600 Those two things took place and there were only 46 00:03:13.780 --> 00:03:15.580 one prior and when after which had made its 47 00:03:15.580 --> 00:03:20.580 significance. The first was on a large faculty and 48 00:03:21.100 --> 00:03:22.800 community response and. 49 00:03:25.370 --> 00:03:28.510 Now when compared to previous response to those 50 00:03:28.510 --> 00:03:33.510 two communities one individual Carol both his wife 51 00:03:34.030 --> 00:03:38.470 of a graduate student Haines residents contact at 52 00:03:38.470 --> 00:03:40.840 large portions of the community through various 53 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:44.140 women's groups. And also 54 00:03:46.890 --> 00:03:49.950 the director of the music department convicted the 55 00:03:49.950 --> 00:03:53.200 main feature. Pritchard was instrumental in 56 00:03:53.200 --> 00:03:55.090 contacting members of the faculty. 57 00:03:58.420 --> 00:04:01.240 Part of the decision on that day was whether to 58 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:03.430 actually stage a sit down in one of the 59 00:04:03.450 --> 00:04:04.190 intersections 60 00:04:06.570 --> 00:04:11.440 as sort of as a step in escalation and protest. 61 00:04:11.530 --> 00:04:16.530 Yes. Well the decision was made just prior to the 62 00:04:16.960 --> 00:04:19.810 rally. Starting being one group is probably not 63 00:04:19.810 --> 00:04:23.050 large enough to attempt that and still get away 64 00:04:23.050 --> 00:04:24.550 with it as far as the police department was 65 00:04:24.550 --> 00:04:24.970 concerned. 66 00:04:27.780 --> 00:04:32.230 So the sit down was called off. We had a two hour 67 00:04:32.230 --> 00:04:36.250 parade permit to allow us to walk ten or twelve 68 00:04:36.250 --> 00:04:40.000 blind. Did you speak in the round. Well I did 69 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:45.000 speak at the rally when it got there. One of the 70 00:04:45.130 --> 00:04:49.660 statements that I made at the rally or two really 71 00:04:49.660 --> 00:04:52.780 one was counter argument to those people that were 72 00:04:52.780 --> 00:04:56.890 calling for violence. And the only future 73 00:04:56.890 --> 00:04:57.940 effective activity 74 00:05:00.760 --> 00:05:04.480 spoke in favor of using nonviolent protest as the 75 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:07.720 means celebrating change. The other statement that 76 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:08.440 I made 77 00:05:11.020 --> 00:05:14.040 was the fact that protests tried to do two things. 78 00:05:14.050 --> 00:05:16.600 I thought one was of course communicate a message 79 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:19.930 and the other was to build a community among 80 00:05:19.930 --> 00:05:23.890 ourselves. I thought that they particularly 81 00:05:23.890 --> 00:05:28.210 Saturday May 2nd approached October 15th in many 82 00:05:28.210 --> 00:05:31.450 regards this as a group unity among people that. 83 00:05:34.280 --> 00:05:38.210 One felt good about what they were doing. They 84 00:05:38.210 --> 00:05:40.560 felt that they needed to do it. 85 00:05:43.540 --> 00:05:45.430 And therefore we're happy that they were doing it. 86 00:05:47.840 --> 00:05:51.110 So it wasn't a case of being completely wasted 87 00:05:51.380 --> 00:05:53.770 because it didn't change Vietnam policy. It was 88 00:05:53.780 --> 00:05:58.250 something that people themselves needed for what 89 00:05:58.250 --> 00:05:59.440 happened at the draft point. 90 00:06:01.830 --> 00:06:04.950 In this day. Well nothing happened to the death on 91 00:06:05.070 --> 00:06:08.830 Saturday. A second later on in the week. 92 00:06:13.290 --> 00:06:18.290 Sun myself Rod Williams and Cobos got together at 93 00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:23.440 the boathouse and talked about what future 94 00:06:23.450 --> 00:06:25.100 activities we thought could be planned. 95 00:06:28.280 --> 00:06:31.490 They were varied in part some of the suggested 96 00:06:31.490 --> 00:06:35.630 ideas which which weren't used were one publicly 97 00:06:35.630 --> 00:06:37.250 announcing we're going to paint the draft board 98 00:06:37.250 --> 00:06:40.340 black. And then going down and attempting to paint 99 00:06:40.340 --> 00:06:43.310 it black hoping and knowing that we would be 100 00:06:43.310 --> 00:06:46.580 arrested because of that activity or other actions. 101 00:06:46.580 --> 00:06:50.120 So we thought about were a week long consecutive 102 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.400 sit down strikes at the induction center in Des 103 00:06:52.400 --> 00:06:56.150 Moines by three people a day working up to the 104 00:06:56.150 --> 00:06:58.400 seventh day when there'd be a mass statewide call 105 00:07:01.610 --> 00:07:05.000 sort of part of the thinking and all this. And I 106 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:08.510 don't think it's masochistic is that some of us 107 00:07:08.870 --> 00:07:13.870 felt a need and almost a desire to to get arrested 108 00:07:14.930 --> 00:07:17.150 and what we felt to be a legitimate political 109 00:07:17.150 --> 00:07:17.780 protest 110 00:07:19.820 --> 00:07:23.690 before the an impermeable. Well it was. I don't 111 00:07:23.690 --> 00:07:25.910 think for publicity purposes because the 112 00:07:25.910 --> 00:07:28.430 activities that were really planned were for one 113 00:07:28.430 --> 00:07:32.900 or two or three people. Primarily it was just a 114 00:07:32.900 --> 00:07:33.560 commitment. 115 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:38.600 And we had to make it that time that we felt we 116 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:40.730 had to do something more than we were doing before 117 00:07:40.850 --> 00:07:44.960 and some sacrifice. You know was involved in that 118 00:07:45.380 --> 00:07:49.040 on Monday May 4th to the day after discussions 119 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:50.000 with the Boase. 120 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:55.700 I took three of six pieces of wood and made three 121 00:07:55.700 --> 00:07:59.300 crosses and drove them into the draft board lawned 122 00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:03.710 and then had one sign with a quote of Abraham 123 00:08:03.710 --> 00:08:07.820 Lincoln that I had with me. Any significance to 124 00:08:07.910 --> 00:08:11.570 having Tea Party crosses were labeled Vietnam 125 00:08:11.570 --> 00:08:15.290 Cambodia and Lounds in the extent of the quote was 126 00:08:16.250 --> 00:08:18.830 sin by silence and cowards of men. One of the 127 00:08:18.830 --> 00:08:22.590 posters of the moratorium committee put out. I 128 00:08:22.610 --> 00:08:26.940 originally sat in the front part of the lawn with 129 00:08:26.990 --> 00:08:31.190 the crosses on employees of Robert Pyle who owns 130 00:08:31.190 --> 00:08:34.480 the building called the police. You were alone. I 131 00:08:34.500 --> 00:08:37.280 was alone. Please came informed me that I would be 132 00:08:37.280 --> 00:08:40.340 arrested for trespassing unless I moved to the 133 00:08:40.340 --> 00:08:41.510 other side of the sidewalk 134 00:08:43.730 --> 00:08:47.600 which I didn't do not feeling a certain amount of 135 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:49.670 frustration and thinking you in the end get 136 00:08:49.670 --> 00:08:51.110 arrested or was trespassing. 137 00:08:53.870 --> 00:08:55.680 The word had gotten out somebody and saw the 138 00:08:55.680 --> 00:08:57.890 police talking to the men and the word got in the 139 00:08:57.890 --> 00:09:00.740 campus that I'd been arrested for sitting on the 140 00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:05.740 lawn. And many people maybe 25 or so close friends 141 00:09:06.680 --> 00:09:08.420 immediately came down to find out what was 142 00:09:08.420 --> 00:09:08.950 happening. 143 00:09:11.150 --> 00:09:15.350 They were sent back by me being told that nothing 144 00:09:15.350 --> 00:09:19.010 was really happening one way or the other. One 145 00:09:19.010 --> 00:09:21.770 individual Doug March decided to stay. And then 146 00:09:21.770 --> 00:09:24.770 later on an hour later or so Mrs. Yates it was a 147 00:09:24.770 --> 00:09:28.560 couple blocks away also came over. We had a 148 00:09:28.610 --> 00:09:33.610 discussion as to what we could do. Mrs. Yates is 149 00:09:34.310 --> 00:09:36.380 very adamant about wanting to go inside the board 150 00:09:37.880 --> 00:09:39.050 and myself 151 00:09:41.150 --> 00:09:44.360 trying to delay that action feeling that getting 152 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:47.070 arrested for her trespassing had no significance. 153 00:09:49.880 --> 00:09:52.790 After quite a bit of discussion we moved inside 154 00:09:52.790 --> 00:09:55.880 the board first on the steps 155 00:09:58.150 --> 00:09:59.810 where the discussion once again centered around 156 00:09:59.810 --> 00:10:02.810 whether we'd be arrested for trespassing which I 157 00:10:02.810 --> 00:10:07.610 was still opposed to was then decided that to move 158 00:10:07.610 --> 00:10:10.340 inside the draft board office where we did get 159 00:10:10.340 --> 00:10:15.340 arrested to be a greater penalty. But the charge 160 00:10:16.020 --> 00:10:19.820 to be on hopefully obstructing the process of the 161 00:10:19.820 --> 00:10:22.940 draft rather than trespassing which had a little 162 00:10:22.970 --> 00:10:24.890 more political significance to Mr. Marks and 163 00:10:24.890 --> 00:10:29.890 myself Doug Marks. We were in there. Police came. 164 00:10:30.500 --> 00:10:32.600 Apparently the police weren't able to do anything 165 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:34.970 because the complaint had been filed by 166 00:10:37.340 --> 00:10:42.240 Mr. Pyle. Robert Carlyle employees. We were set 167 00:10:42.290 --> 00:10:44.960 inside the draft board and the police came. They 168 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:47.120 were apparently unable to do anything because a 169 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:50.210 complaint had been filed by employees of Mr. 170 00:10:50.540 --> 00:10:53.240 Robert Pyles Accounting Service rather than 171 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:57.950 employee's of the draft office. The police lab we 172 00:10:57.950 --> 00:11:02.840 spent an hour there had conversations with draft 173 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:06.710 board personnel and also with three draftees that 174 00:11:06.710 --> 00:11:07.430 came in. 175 00:11:10.520 --> 00:11:13.730 At the end of the hour what decision was made to 176 00:11:13.730 --> 00:11:16.160 move back out to be the spot that I was originally 177 00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:17.180 asked to move from. 178 00:11:19.430 --> 00:11:23.570 Once again I'm still still thinking and wanting to 179 00:11:23.570 --> 00:11:26.720 be arrested for something that was nonviolently 180 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:28.250 protesting Cambodian 181 00:11:31.280 --> 00:11:34.640 protest that they had had no connection with with 182 00:11:34.670 --> 00:11:38.270 Kent State. Sanction was straight Cambodian. 183 00:11:40.370 --> 00:11:44.060 Well the police were called and told that we were 184 00:11:44.060 --> 00:11:48.230 back on the original spot. They didn't come home 185 00:11:48.350 --> 00:11:52.350 call. We've called once again by employees of 186 00:11:52.490 --> 00:11:56.030 Robert Pyles Accounting Service why they were 187 00:11:56.030 --> 00:12:00.800 objecting as an employee. They own the ground. The 188 00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:03.830 only reason I could think of the daily check to 189 00:12:03.830 --> 00:12:05.020 make sure they were home. 190 00:12:08.630 --> 00:12:11.630 They said they the daily informed me that Mr. 191 00:12:11.630 --> 00:12:13.520 Pollen's Employee's had called home. 192 00:12:16.220 --> 00:12:19.430 We spent till four thirty there and nothing 193 00:12:19.430 --> 00:12:22.190 happened and we decided to break it up for the day. 194 00:12:24.980 --> 00:12:29.980 On the following day Tuesday May 5th started out 195 00:12:31.390 --> 00:12:34.150 by meeting being called in thirty nine room in the 196 00:12:34.150 --> 00:12:38.230 Commons who called the meeting. The meeting was 197 00:12:38.230 --> 00:12:43.230 called is as far as I can tell by Bill Sworn and 198 00:12:43.640 --> 00:12:44.010 Tom. 199 00:12:46.810 --> 00:12:48.940 And maybe Bill Ringel. But I'm not sure that 200 00:12:52.180 --> 00:12:56.980 Thuan is generally considered to be quote unquote 201 00:12:57.010 --> 00:12:59.680 one of the more radical students at least in 202 00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:00.580 theory and town. 203 00:13:03.970 --> 00:13:06.250 I was not specifically invited to the meeting and 204 00:13:06.250 --> 00:13:08.830 just sort of went on to say that the parties as an 205 00:13:08.830 --> 00:13:09.490 observer 206 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.230 the talk there centered around 207 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:18.850 going over to the right to drill which was 208 00:13:18.850 --> 00:13:22.930 supposed to take place at one o'clock and staging 209 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:23.940 activity there. 210 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:29.170 There was talk about why we were going over and 211 00:13:29.170 --> 00:13:31.750 how to go over there and which tactics to use to 212 00:13:31.750 --> 00:13:35.920 be effective has still not been arrested. The 213 00:13:35.920 --> 00:13:39.820 thought was to go over to the grassy field and one 214 00:13:39.820 --> 00:13:42.550 at a time sit on the deal. And when that person 215 00:13:42.550 --> 00:13:44.330 was asked to move another person would go inside 216 00:13:44.370 --> 00:13:48.370 and take his place. The theory here was the 217 00:13:48.370 --> 00:13:50.620 university would give warnings to everyone before 218 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:53.060 they arrested anyone. And when you were warned he 219 00:13:53.060 --> 00:13:55.750 would move and another would take his place. And 220 00:13:55.750 --> 00:13:57.370 hopefully this way we could. 221 00:13:59.670 --> 00:14:01.690 The decision was made hopefully that you will keep 222 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:06.720 the drill in mobile well as the Arctic and 223 00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:11.920 improving drilling. There are a mixture of of why 224 00:14:11.950 --> 00:14:16.210 it was being done. I think many people within the 225 00:14:16.210 --> 00:14:20.830 movement here had to sort of express the dislike 226 00:14:20.950 --> 00:14:24.490 for the program a dislike for the military and 227 00:14:24.640 --> 00:14:26.380 kind of dislike anyone that was supporting the 228 00:14:26.380 --> 00:14:31.380 military. So what I am what I tend to call the B 229 00:14:32.470 --> 00:14:34.420 the hate Imodium for going over. There wasn't some 230 00:14:34.420 --> 00:14:38.110 people on the other side of the coin. What I've 231 00:14:38.110 --> 00:14:40.630 been calling the love Monia of going over there 232 00:14:40.630 --> 00:14:44.080 was the expression of concern. The people in 233 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.440 Rawnsley in trying to express what we felt they 234 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:51.280 were doing to themselves by allowing themselves to 235 00:14:51.280 --> 00:14:55.380 be in the military program of first of all this 236 00:14:55.390 --> 00:14:57.490 act was what it was doing to them and as far as 237 00:14:59.950 --> 00:15:01.810 their community and their individualistic 238 00:15:02.470 --> 00:15:05.110 characteristics. And the other course with the 239 00:15:05.110 --> 00:15:09.670 military does so. There was no unified motive in 240 00:15:09.670 --> 00:15:13.090 going over there. And the differences were were 241 00:15:13.330 --> 00:15:13.780 very 242 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:19.990 adamantly discussed at the meeting in the union. 243 00:15:21.190 --> 00:15:24.040 We went where tactics agreed upon. The tactics 244 00:15:24.150 --> 00:15:29.150 were pretty much agreed upon. We went there at one 245 00:15:29.490 --> 00:15:32.650 and for some reason the program had already been 246 00:15:32.650 --> 00:15:36.550 cancelled. Either that or the Times had been 247 00:15:36.550 --> 00:15:39.250 confused. We've never really checked in. Which of 248 00:15:39.250 --> 00:15:41.950 those two were the reasons. 249 00:15:44.590 --> 00:15:46.810 When people got there they moved first of all over 250 00:15:46.810 --> 00:15:50.170 to the Navy Roxy Building which is directly across 251 00:15:50.170 --> 00:15:50.920 from by our hall. 252 00:15:53.890 --> 00:15:58.260 When we got there the doors were were barred from 253 00:15:59.010 --> 00:16:03.340 Bronzy an instructor person. We're outside of the 254 00:16:03.340 --> 00:16:08.340 door. There was a sit in staged there and sort of 255 00:16:09.280 --> 00:16:13.480 sitting on the steps and the entrance wasn't 256 00:16:13.750 --> 00:16:15.820 really obstructed to anyone that wanted to get 257 00:16:15.820 --> 00:16:19.240 through. At one point 258 00:16:21.310 --> 00:16:25.900 one officer yelled instructor officer before the 259 00:16:25.900 --> 00:16:29.110 program started to approach the doors and students 260 00:16:29.110 --> 00:16:30.070 sat in front of him. 261 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:37.050 I talked to the kids and they sort of moved aside. 262 00:16:37.090 --> 00:16:39.220 It was still difficult and offered being an 263 00:16:40.690 --> 00:16:44.500 instructor officer hand and helped him up the 264 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:44.830 steps. 265 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:52.320 There was. The people I don't know many almost as 266 00:16:52.460 --> 00:16:55.390 a nickname as some people use chalk on the steps 267 00:16:55.420 --> 00:16:58.540 and also chalk on the building to write various 268 00:16:58.540 --> 00:16:59.170 messages. 269 00:17:03.130 --> 00:17:06.910 There was a little bit of discussion but not much 270 00:17:09.260 --> 00:17:12.490 that I could see between protesters and between 271 00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:15.480 Rothesay personnel and. 272 00:17:17.670 --> 00:17:21.560 We'll see you again. The dog days I spent. I 273 00:17:21.560 --> 00:17:25.520 talked to two or three for quite a while but did 274 00:17:25.520 --> 00:17:28.040 seem most of that came after most of the group had 275 00:17:28.040 --> 00:17:32.420 moved away. And as far as I could tell that was 276 00:17:33.230 --> 00:17:36.020 really the unusual circumstance that very few 277 00:17:36.020 --> 00:17:39.090 students tried to talk at that time around to 278 00:17:39.110 --> 00:17:39.560 people. 279 00:17:42.770 --> 00:17:45.740 There was talk there of moving in over to the 280 00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:46.400 armory. 281 00:17:48.650 --> 00:17:50.750 It was agreed upon that one or two people would go 282 00:17:50.750 --> 00:17:54.110 over to try to see if the doors were open 283 00:17:56.500 --> 00:17:58.730 and if they were to be inside. The doors could be 284 00:17:58.730 --> 00:18:01.110 reopened. They were locked as the naval rounds 285 00:18:01.130 --> 00:18:01.870 building in the mine. 286 00:18:04.280 --> 00:18:07.370 That was done and the group moved over. I'm not 287 00:18:07.580 --> 00:18:09.650 sure what happened at the doors because I stated 288 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.550 Navy Sea and talked to several of their personnel 289 00:18:14.390 --> 00:18:17.990 before going over to me over to the armory. When I 290 00:18:17.990 --> 00:18:21.400 got to the armory people were already inside an 291 00:18:22.790 --> 00:18:25.720 Iraqi program. The drill had been called off. 292 00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:31.940 One of the student leaders of the drill he came to 293 00:18:31.940 --> 00:18:36.940 me apparently recognizing me just sort of 294 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.630 expressed the hope that no damage would be done to 295 00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:45.110 the building. And it was no big deal as far as he 296 00:18:45.110 --> 00:18:46.990 was concerned that the drill had been prevented. 297 00:18:50.090 --> 00:18:54.470 What followed there was volatile in his mouth. And 298 00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:54.950 he 299 00:18:57.070 --> 00:18:59.480 wanted to I would think early afternoon 300 00:19:01.510 --> 00:19:03.080 what immediately followed was. 301 00:19:08.230 --> 00:19:11.940 Members of the Dean of students office ingested 302 00:19:12.060 --> 00:19:14.530 that some first some of the protesters got up and 303 00:19:14.530 --> 00:19:17.680 talked to the three commanders of the three rounds 304 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:22.680 of programs on campus. Most of the protesters felt 305 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:29.880 had to be worthless. Myself and the four or five 306 00:19:30.520 --> 00:19:33.580 other people didn't go up. Mike Conley 307 00:19:35.650 --> 00:19:36.400 was one. 308 00:19:40.290 --> 00:19:43.620 Names always come to nothing in it. Two others 309 00:19:43.630 --> 00:19:48.600 were Tom Potts and Rick Compson. Much of the 310 00:19:48.600 --> 00:19:49.860 discussion at that time 311 00:19:52.770 --> 00:19:54.510 productive discussion I thought was it was 312 00:19:54.510 --> 00:19:58.520 conducted by Rick Thompson who is a Quaker and 313 00:19:58.530 --> 00:20:01.520 also primarily the draft counselor on campus. 314 00:20:04.650 --> 00:20:07.380 After about an hour of a group discussion it broke 315 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:10.860 into almost a one to one discussion between 316 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.070 individuals. One of our individuals and one of the 317 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.410 commanders of the Ranchi program. 318 00:20:19.100 --> 00:20:23.450 That eventually broke up with. I don't think any 319 00:20:23.450 --> 00:20:27.360 really productive results. Did you get yourself 320 00:20:27.590 --> 00:20:31.390 any insight into the military's thinking on this. 321 00:20:32.130 --> 00:20:37.070 Again you know I spent the hour I was there 322 00:20:37.070 --> 00:20:41.390 talking to Colonel Barnett and I didn't get any 323 00:20:41.390 --> 00:20:42.350 real insights. 324 00:20:44.420 --> 00:20:46.600 There were arguments that I'd heard before both 325 00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:47.200 ways. 326 00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:50.760 It was 327 00:20:53.650 --> 00:20:56.790 never the old argument the the old conflicts of 328 00:20:58.410 --> 00:21:02.340 everyone agreeing that war was wrong. Their 329 00:21:02.340 --> 00:21:05.010 statement that that was reality and it had to be 330 00:21:05.010 --> 00:21:08.250 dealt with in our statement of 331 00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:13.230 idealism can can come about if enough people 332 00:21:13.230 --> 00:21:15.810 participate in it. And you just have to have the 333 00:21:15.810 --> 00:21:20.660 courage to do that. So you know there was I think 334 00:21:20.760 --> 00:21:22.470 any real insight into each other. 335 00:21:25.290 --> 00:21:27.870 There was a little in time one of. 336 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:32.870 I don't think anything really developed. But I 337 00:21:32.870 --> 00:21:36.980 don't feel it was a waste of time to sort of see 338 00:21:37.310 --> 00:21:39.980 any conversation we get into now is being. 339 00:21:42.730 --> 00:21:45.490 Sort of groundbreaking or seedling that the next 340 00:21:45.490 --> 00:21:48.120 time you talk to somebody because someone else did 341 00:21:48.120 --> 00:21:50.830 a previously obedience here and we'll need better 342 00:21:50.830 --> 00:21:53.890 understanding. And we're pretty. We feel that 343 00:21:53.890 --> 00:21:54.910 works both ways. 344 00:21:59.130 --> 00:22:02.640 So that discussion went on but nothing was really 345 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:07.640 resolved. We went I went from there over to the to 346 00:22:07.800 --> 00:22:12.420 the union and killed some time and then as four 347 00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:15.370 thirty approached went back to the to the armory. 348 00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:20.370 The word had then stated that at five o'clock the 349 00:22:20.370 --> 00:22:21.930 dean of students office was going to request 350 00:22:21.930 --> 00:22:25.260 people to leave. And if they didn't leave that 351 00:22:25.260 --> 00:22:26.100 would be arrested. 352 00:22:30.090 --> 00:22:33.670 And getting there. We were told at 5:00 that we'd 353 00:22:33.670 --> 00:22:38.530 be asked to leave at 6:00. What then started was a 354 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:40.810 discussion of 355 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:47.320 why we were there what we could do and how we 356 00:22:47.320 --> 00:22:52.320 should do it. Votes being taken whenever an issue 357 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.840 was raised in majority rule. How many students 358 00:22:55.840 --> 00:22:56.890 were there. I mean 359 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:03.250 not many at that time. I wouldn't say he 360 00:23:03.580 --> 00:23:05.860 acknowledges his and it's probably pretty accurate. 361 00:23:09.730 --> 00:23:10.750 It was decided 362 00:23:13.750 --> 00:23:18.750 to stay in until you arrested 40 people stayed. 363 00:23:21.250 --> 00:23:23.110 We're still there at six o'clock and committed to 364 00:23:23.110 --> 00:23:23.900 that prospect. 365 00:23:26.620 --> 00:23:29.020 Well there was once again a certain amount of 366 00:23:29.020 --> 00:23:32.140 disagreement as to as to why get arrested 367 00:23:34.390 --> 00:23:38.920 myself stating the only issue at this time that we 368 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:40.950 could get arrested for being Cambodia. 369 00:23:42.970 --> 00:23:46.750 Bill Swanbourne Barellan Steve Oswald. Barb Yates 370 00:23:48.520 --> 00:23:51.910 felt that it was a dual issue between Cambodian 371 00:23:51.910 --> 00:23:56.590 Kent State. And a lot of discussion revolved 372 00:23:56.590 --> 00:23:59.020 around whether Kent State was actually being used 373 00:24:00.220 --> 00:24:02.890 at this time by members on this campus and all 374 00:24:02.890 --> 00:24:03.640 over the country. 375 00:24:07.360 --> 00:24:12.360 Many of the. Well more freaky looking radical 376 00:24:12.800 --> 00:24:13.400 students 377 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.620 felt Kent State really had a fear of but Kent 378 00:24:18.620 --> 00:24:23.540 State. Kent State had happened personally and felt 379 00:24:23.540 --> 00:24:25.640 that this might be setting the tone for the future. 380 00:24:27.410 --> 00:24:31.070 Student demonstrators were going to be alive. They 381 00:24:31.070 --> 00:24:34.310 were persecuted and particularly those that could 382 00:24:34.310 --> 00:24:35.120 be identified. 383 00:24:40.170 --> 00:24:40.680 There was 384 00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:46.920 a certain amount of factionalism developed over 385 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:47.640 that issue. 386 00:24:50.610 --> 00:24:54.150 But it was it was resolved and it wasn't resolved 387 00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:56.640 but it was. Both groups allowed the difference of 388 00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:58.050 opinion to be there at the time. 389 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:05.460 Much of the protest in my mind is 390 00:25:07.910 --> 00:25:10.440 in the hope it's effective. If it isn't effective 391 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.960 it has to be somewhat purifying to the person who 392 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.270 does it. And therefore the reason should be very 393 00:25:15.810 --> 00:25:18.360 solid in his mind. And also the way that he does 394 00:25:18.360 --> 00:25:22.440 it. And this is I suppose that the faction that 395 00:25:22.560 --> 00:25:25.680 developed there was worse off because I raised 396 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:26.340 that issue 397 00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:32.810 with this son in a weird period. Every remaining 398 00:25:33.270 --> 00:25:38.040 it occurred throughout this next week. Many times 399 00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:40.540 never really quite resolving itself 400 00:25:43.540 --> 00:25:48.090 at 6:00. Well bin Laden sending and Tom Goodale 401 00:25:48.090 --> 00:25:53.090 came over and told us that we were not going to be 402 00:25:53.610 --> 00:25:57.870 forcibly removed but that disciplinary action 403 00:25:57.870 --> 00:26:00.120 would be taken against those people in the 404 00:26:00.120 --> 00:26:03.570 building. And they started to take names. 405 00:26:09.300 --> 00:26:12.630 We found out later that according Junction to 406 00:26:12.650 --> 00:26:15.420 remove as had been attempted to be obtained by the 407 00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:17.820 university. But for some reason or other wasn't 408 00:26:17.820 --> 00:26:21.120 obtained. And that's the primary reason. Well 409 00:26:21.930 --> 00:26:24.540 that's a legalistic reason why police weren't used 410 00:26:24.540 --> 00:26:28.410 to remove us. I'm certain in my mind that the dean 411 00:26:28.410 --> 00:26:32.260 of students office didn't want to use force. And 412 00:26:32.310 --> 00:26:36.360 I've always had that attitude that night Tuesday 413 00:26:36.360 --> 00:26:40.560 made the government's dead body and the strike 414 00:26:40.560 --> 00:26:40.890 vote. 415 00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:47.510 So I attended that. Did you speak at that meeting. 416 00:26:47.790 --> 00:26:51.000 I spoke at the meeting. The primary. 417 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.420 Statement of my argument. I spoke twice very 418 00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:04.590 briefly was the government student body had no way 419 00:27:04.590 --> 00:27:06.630 of knowing how many students they represented. 420 00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:11.310 They asked for everybody. Fifty one percent of 421 00:27:11.310 --> 00:27:14.130 university didn't turn a vote. Could never be 422 00:27:16.450 --> 00:27:20.840 often. Well oftentime identifies four. 423 00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:27.690 I just asked said that their statement would be 424 00:27:27.690 --> 00:27:32.100 simply you know their expression that they were 425 00:27:32.280 --> 00:27:34.670 supposedly leaders of the student body and 426 00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:38.370 therefore exact as leaders. And because they were 427 00:27:38.370 --> 00:27:41.670 leaders they were supposedly the best of America 428 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.280 and their expression didn't mean something. 429 00:27:47.820 --> 00:27:51.990 There was this discussion by Lee by the the 430 00:27:51.990 --> 00:27:56.910 audience with an open mike was probably harmful to 431 00:27:56.910 --> 00:27:59.310 the final vote and that the vote. I don't think 432 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:01.940 would have been as close to fifteen to eleven. And 433 00:28:02.450 --> 00:28:05.790 if the vote had been taken after before the Open 434 00:28:05.790 --> 00:28:10.350 Mike Whalen environment that was harmful and that 435 00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:16.690 certain members of the audience made statements of 436 00:28:16.690 --> 00:28:19.380 what they thought might happen if action wasn't 437 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:24.380 taken in sort of a mile. Not so much. There wasn't 438 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:27.240 coercion there but the thought of coercion and the 439 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:32.240 future of certain students I'm sure 440 00:28:35.110 --> 00:28:38.370 he used language and also actions which alienated 441 00:28:38.430 --> 00:28:39.960 part of the government the student body. 442 00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:45.950 So the final vote. Fifteen to eleven. 443 00:28:48.360 --> 00:28:50.340 I don't know. I don't know if that was a strict 444 00:28:50.340 --> 00:28:54.680 vote on a Cambodian incident. I the sympathy with. 445 00:28:54.700 --> 00:28:57.390 Well. I think the sympathy was. Was more than that 446 00:28:57.390 --> 00:29:00.780 among members of the government. The body was 447 00:29:00.780 --> 00:29:02.850 partially defining their role and partially 448 00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:06.570 alienation from the people that spoke in favor of 449 00:29:06.570 --> 00:29:07.670 the strike from the audience. 450 00:29:10.950 --> 00:29:15.510 After the vote. Did you go back. Not immediately. 451 00:29:16.470 --> 00:29:19.410 We started immediately on a program of publicity 452 00:29:20.370 --> 00:29:24.360 for the strike for the strike. There was a certain 453 00:29:24.990 --> 00:29:29.790 almost humorous problem involved there that I 454 00:29:29.790 --> 00:29:33.530 later heard about it and get into that. The 455 00:29:33.540 --> 00:29:36.450 moratorium and peace. Now people were putting on a 456 00:29:36.450 --> 00:29:40.700 flyer which said strike the word strike on it or 457 00:29:40.700 --> 00:29:42.750 as a government student body. Didn't want to use 458 00:29:42.750 --> 00:29:45.930 that word on the flyer. We're using the phrase 459 00:29:45.930 --> 00:29:50.240 come together. So there were two fires going out 460 00:29:50.250 --> 00:29:55.140 from two separate people on the same issue. And 461 00:29:55.800 --> 00:29:58.380 there was no animosity there. But many people felt 462 00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:00.900 the gunman's body was dodging the issue. And a 463 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:03.210 flyer even after they tackled it pretty well 464 00:30:03.210 --> 00:30:07.350 before the word had gotten out about the strike. 465 00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:10.080 And a lot of people had gone over to the armory. 466 00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:16.520 So I went back to the Armory Ballentine. This had 467 00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:21.210 to be almost midnight. The dean of students office 468 00:30:22.260 --> 00:30:25.020 had given up taking names. They decided there were 469 00:30:25.020 --> 00:30:28.290 too many people there to take disciplinary action 470 00:30:28.290 --> 00:30:28.980 against. 471 00:30:31.280 --> 00:30:34.470 Was there any resistance to giving an individual's 472 00:30:34.470 --> 00:30:39.470 name on his own. No. Names. Names. Warden whatever 473 00:30:41.310 --> 00:30:44.340 room withheld from the dean's students office that 474 00:30:44.340 --> 00:30:47.850 I know of. Previous same year we'd had this 475 00:30:47.850 --> 00:30:51.930 problem with name taking. And at that time 476 00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:56.160 everyone voluntarily gave their names. Many people 477 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.430 that didn't participate in the demonstrations came 478 00:30:59.430 --> 00:31:01.170 over and gave the names to the dean of students 479 00:31:01.170 --> 00:31:02.390 offices sympathy. 480 00:31:04.470 --> 00:31:06.750 So there was no attempt to hide the actions of any 481 00:31:06.750 --> 00:31:08.100 person of 482 00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:15.380 the night that night Pete. And a couple of things 483 00:31:16.650 --> 00:31:19.800 happened. I don't have anything of real 484 00:31:19.800 --> 00:31:23.850 significance. Some of us stayed up to four o'clock 485 00:31:23.850 --> 00:31:26.610 and brought the dailies back to the people and 486 00:31:26.620 --> 00:31:28.560 also spent the night listening to the wire 487 00:31:28.560 --> 00:31:32.580 services over the Daley office and Nixon and open 488 00:31:32.580 --> 00:31:35.700 up three new fronts that night. And that was 489 00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:39.810 announced. The body it was to make a commitment of 490 00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:42.000 15000 more American troops. 491 00:31:44.250 --> 00:31:46.440 A lot of people. There was a lot of once again the 492 00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:48.810 community spirit there. People brought food. 493 00:31:48.990 --> 00:31:52.230 Shared food. Other people bought blankets for 494 00:31:52.230 --> 00:31:56.240 people. There was a record player. Were there many 495 00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.200 people from outside the movement coming in talk to 496 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:03.110 you. Well it was high. People are human too. It 497 00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:05.540 was apparently we're not involved. They were not 498 00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:09.050 very good townspeople there which I don't know if 499 00:32:09.050 --> 00:32:11.510 they knew about it. Students over the student 500 00:32:11.510 --> 00:32:13.520 radio station had heard about it. And there were 501 00:32:13.520 --> 00:32:16.960 many students that we hadn't seen before. There 502 00:32:18.610 --> 00:32:22.120 was some people just sightseeing walking one tiny 503 00:32:22.210 --> 00:32:24.520 or you know the other. But that many people stayed. 504 00:32:26.270 --> 00:32:26.960 The crowd 505 00:32:29.660 --> 00:32:33.680 probably got magnetize as 150 maybe 200 during the 506 00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:34.040 night. 507 00:32:36.380 --> 00:32:39.020 People sat around. Some people will play chess 508 00:32:39.210 --> 00:32:43.220 Frisbee the football game going on. A lot of 509 00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:47.420 things which were sort of fun things the fun 510 00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:51.050 things. Once again there's weren't really improved 511 00:32:51.050 --> 00:32:54.380 by some people. Some people thought that showed a 512 00:32:54.380 --> 00:32:59.380 lack of seriousness. Other people rationalize it 513 00:32:59.600 --> 00:33:03.980 by saying it was an effort to make a protest and 514 00:33:03.980 --> 00:33:07.370 the movement livable that you needed a little bit 515 00:33:07.370 --> 00:33:09.350 of each. What was your reaction to it. 516 00:33:11.420 --> 00:33:15.350 My attitude is generally that protest has to be a 517 00:33:15.350 --> 00:33:19.850 24 hour a day serious type endeavor and. 518 00:33:22.130 --> 00:33:23.740 That the releases. 519 00:33:25.980 --> 00:33:29.530 Now I definitely tend to look down on the type of 520 00:33:29.530 --> 00:33:31.080 activities that went on that night. 521 00:33:33.540 --> 00:33:36.240 Not swim. Not so I wasn't that opposed to what 522 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.100 happened that night. But at other nights or other 523 00:33:38.520 --> 00:33:41.750 activities other days I spoke out against that 524 00:33:41.750 --> 00:33:42.540 type of activity. 525 00:33:46.330 --> 00:33:49.420 And you spent the rest of the night there spent a 526 00:33:49.520 --> 00:33:52.370 night there till till five thirty in the morning 527 00:33:54.040 --> 00:33:59.040 when we decided to add primarily my suggestion 528 00:34:01.070 --> 00:34:03.590 that we move over to the flying pool to greet 529 00:34:03.590 --> 00:34:07.530 whoever decided to put up the flying one over at 530 00:34:07.610 --> 00:34:08.390 530. 531 00:34:11.370 --> 00:34:13.200 Spent a lot of time there must've been eight or 532 00:34:13.200 --> 00:34:16.670 nine before they tried to put up the flag. Look 533 00:34:16.790 --> 00:34:20.490 I'm usually flying blind. I'm not certain when it 534 00:34:20.490 --> 00:34:23.070 usually goes up. I think it's supposed to go up at 535 00:34:23.070 --> 00:34:26.460 sunrise which would have been about six thirty 536 00:34:26.460 --> 00:34:28.840 that morning. And I think I could pass his home to 537 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:32.130 the university but I'm not sure. Do you know why 538 00:34:32.130 --> 00:34:36.720 it was they were slow in coming out. I think they 539 00:34:36.720 --> 00:34:41.720 were just not certain how to deal with 30 people 540 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.180 standing around the fire pole at six o'clock in 541 00:34:45.180 --> 00:34:45.600 the morning. 542 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:50.430 Part of the discussion. Well the only 543 00:34:51.200 --> 00:34:54.780 organizational problem we had then was allowing 544 00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:58.710 people to go to the union to get coffee without in 545 00:34:58.710 --> 00:35:02.460 an organized fashion. So we didn't. We garner our 546 00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:06.990 numerical strength too much. When they get one 547 00:35:06.990 --> 00:35:11.990 janitor in the campus patrolman approached the 548 00:35:12.510 --> 00:35:13.050 flag. 549 00:35:15.930 --> 00:35:18.990 At about eight or nine I'm unsure how because for 550 00:35:18.990 --> 00:35:23.620 a while there were three rows of people around the 551 00:35:23.620 --> 00:35:28.580 plane for myself and the kid named Bob day one cop 552 00:35:28.620 --> 00:35:33.300 for patrolmen and the janitor the statement at 553 00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:35.940 that time wasn't so much a statement but just an 554 00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:40.110 observation that we wanted to talk to someone 555 00:35:40.110 --> 00:35:42.240 about where the flight should be on this day 556 00:35:42.270 --> 00:35:43.740 someone in the universe. Do you ever make that 557 00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:46.020 determination whether it be the janitors bond 558 00:35:46.710 --> 00:35:51.710 whether it be President Park or the janitor was 559 00:35:51.990 --> 00:35:54.510 fairly adamant on wanting to put up the flag. 560 00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:58.710 My only statement and the statement that 561 00:35:58.830 --> 00:36:02.550 apparently changed his mind was that it was 562 00:36:02.730 --> 00:36:05.220 necessary for him to use physical force to put the 563 00:36:05.220 --> 00:36:07.400 flying up even though I guaranteed him that none 564 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:09.300 of the students would use physical force back to 565 00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:12.240 prevent him. But just that they were going to 566 00:36:12.240 --> 00:36:16.590 stand there and to get over them somehow. That was 567 00:36:16.590 --> 00:36:19.860 enough to push for him to decide that he wanted to 568 00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:21.570 talk it over with his boss before anything 569 00:36:21.570 --> 00:36:22.020 happened. 570 00:36:26.210 --> 00:36:29.270 This is all taking place on Wednesday May 6th 571 00:36:31.910 --> 00:36:35.780 as the day as people stayed around the flagpole. 572 00:36:36.770 --> 00:36:40.180 We never had a chance to talk to President Park 573 00:36:40.580 --> 00:36:41.600 about the flying 574 00:36:44.300 --> 00:36:47.300 very snore. And Jerry Parkin's who government 575 00:36:47.300 --> 00:36:50.240 student body president vice president had 576 00:36:50.240 --> 00:36:52.190 contacted President Parks and had reached an 577 00:36:52.190 --> 00:36:56.060 agreement that the flight would go to half staff 578 00:36:56.060 --> 00:36:59.930 at noon when the rally started. And that was 579 00:37:00.290 --> 00:37:04.250 relayed to us and it was agreeable. It wasn't to 580 00:37:04.250 --> 00:37:07.070 be raised before that. It was not to be raised 581 00:37:07.070 --> 00:37:09.950 before then. There was no discussion that we were 582 00:37:09.950 --> 00:37:14.950 in with that if there was any adult move on. The 583 00:37:16.010 --> 00:37:17.720 only incident involving the flag 584 00:37:20.720 --> 00:37:24.890 was I guess at 11 30 or 11 somewhere around there. 585 00:37:25.910 --> 00:37:29.870 Dick Bjorn's stuff and Augustine and came over 586 00:37:29.870 --> 00:37:32.780 with one of the with the flag of theirs. And it 587 00:37:32.780 --> 00:37:37.190 made a decision to try to raise the flag. There 588 00:37:37.190 --> 00:37:40.250 was a certain amount of scuffling with trying to 589 00:37:40.250 --> 00:37:44.600 get a hold the chain. How many people were around 590 00:37:44.600 --> 00:37:45.980 the five-fold. There were 591 00:37:48.110 --> 00:37:52.550 probably 50 people around the pool at the time. I 592 00:37:52.550 --> 00:37:55.340 wasn't at five when it started. But as soon as 593 00:37:55.340 --> 00:37:59.690 there's a crowd there and some noise came over I 594 00:37:59.700 --> 00:38:03.800 grabbed the chain put my hand on top of everyone 595 00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:04.490 else and. 596 00:38:08.510 --> 00:38:11.510 Mr. Augustine was making a speech that his 597 00:38:11.510 --> 00:38:14.390 minister Brilinta was making a speech about the 598 00:38:15.020 --> 00:38:16.970 position of the flag being only determined by the 599 00:38:16.970 --> 00:38:18.260 president the United States. 600 00:38:21.200 --> 00:38:22.250 I made a statement 601 00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:26.990 similar to the one I made in the janitor that 602 00:38:27.860 --> 00:38:30.710 there was no way at this time if he was smart he 603 00:38:30.710 --> 00:38:32.960 could put the flag up without using physical force 604 00:38:34.730 --> 00:38:36.920 just simply to remove the people standing there 605 00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:40.410 even though they weren't about to harm him because 606 00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:43.730 of the agreement made with Parliament. I also told 607 00:38:43.730 --> 00:38:48.730 him about the agreement. The agreement didn't seem 608 00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:53.900 to have any real influence on his thinking. The 609 00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:57.260 fact that he was confronted with making a decision 610 00:38:57.260 --> 00:39:00.830 whether to use force or not I think is what is 611 00:39:00.830 --> 00:39:04.160 what prevented him from doing anything more of the 612 00:39:04.250 --> 00:39:08.960 stories that have been thrown in his face. As soon 613 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:13.100 as he'd been well maybe correctly or incorrectly 614 00:39:13.110 --> 00:39:15.320 that he was isolated this individual that had to 615 00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:18.380 make the decision whether to use force or not. And 616 00:39:18.380 --> 00:39:20.630 once he had been identified as that fairly or 617 00:39:20.630 --> 00:39:25.630 unfairly he decided to stop and said something 618 00:39:26.900 --> 00:39:31.490 about they made their point and then they left at 619 00:39:31.570 --> 00:39:35.960 12. The flag did go up as has been agreed upon. 620 00:39:40.630 --> 00:39:43.750 The flag was was raised by as agreed by one of our 621 00:39:43.750 --> 00:39:47.800 people Doug Marks who was sort of put in charge of 622 00:39:47.930 --> 00:39:50.710 flying for detail when some of his club. 623 00:39:53.050 --> 00:39:55.990 What followed was wasn't the the mass rally which 624 00:39:56.620 --> 00:39:59.350 had you. Did you have a hand in organizing the 625 00:39:59.350 --> 00:40:00.940 rally the rally. 626 00:40:03.690 --> 00:40:07.870 Well I've been called for a student strike. The 627 00:40:07.870 --> 00:40:09.910 only thing that I was involved in was with 628 00:40:09.910 --> 00:40:13.360 organizing the publicity campaign that night 629 00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:17.080 before which mean putting out flyers and 630 00:40:17.080 --> 00:40:18.610 everything you could find and making sure 631 00:40:18.610 --> 00:40:21.700 residents groups got the flyers and making sure 632 00:40:21.700 --> 00:40:26.500 the daily printed a good story. So I organized the 633 00:40:26.500 --> 00:40:28.540 groups that went to the residents groups. But that 634 00:40:28.540 --> 00:40:30.730 was just finding you know five people in each 635 00:40:30.730 --> 00:40:34.180 residence listening to something. You have a hand 636 00:40:34.180 --> 00:40:37.480 in picking a speaker. The speakers were not picked 637 00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:42.480 by me. Program was apparently signed by I think by 638 00:40:44.950 --> 00:40:45.780 Jerry Snore 639 00:40:48.310 --> 00:40:52.700 part of the. As I understand. What happened. Well 640 00:40:53.310 --> 00:40:54.320 there has been. 641 00:40:57.620 --> 00:41:00.680 The minister started the program there. Were you 642 00:41:00.680 --> 00:41:03.170 there. Yeah. We'll hear when this program was 643 00:41:03.170 --> 00:41:08.170 started. Professor on spoke on economics made a 644 00:41:09.750 --> 00:41:11.930 statement about him and his son being together for 645 00:41:11.930 --> 00:41:15.440 the first time on an issue in a long time meaning 646 00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:19.550 they were both poor abhorred by Cambodian 647 00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:25.490 Professor Alan then spoke is as I understand it 648 00:41:25.490 --> 00:41:27.770 Professor Alan wasn't scheduled to speak. 649 00:41:29.570 --> 00:41:34.570 Professor Alan is no peacenik good. Probably at 650 00:41:36.740 --> 00:41:40.940 least 50 years. Going back as far as we were one 651 00:41:42.200 --> 00:41:43.820 in a man that is 652 00:41:45.950 --> 00:41:48.470 admired by. But most of us at least by myself. 653 00:41:50.540 --> 00:41:51.320 He gave 654 00:41:53.630 --> 00:41:58.550 sort of a dry speech and a few people 655 00:42:00.710 --> 00:42:03.170 in my mind we were very discourteous to him. 656 00:42:05.990 --> 00:42:10.990 The discourtesy that was shown to Professor Alan 657 00:42:11.510 --> 00:42:15.530 in part prompted Bob Tremblay and myself 658 00:42:17.720 --> 00:42:19.760 putting ourselves into the program even though we 659 00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:21.100 weren't scheduled to speak also. 660 00:42:23.750 --> 00:42:25.970 There was a fear that the program was going to be 661 00:42:25.970 --> 00:42:27.440 too long the way it was 662 00:42:30.150 --> 00:42:35.150 trembley myself. Richard Bender Dan Pritchard and 663 00:42:36.160 --> 00:42:39.680 Eric Thompson and a few other people. While this 664 00:42:39.680 --> 00:42:42.380 was going on we're talking about what we could do 665 00:42:42.380 --> 00:42:47.380 with the crowd after the rally. Bob Trembley was 666 00:42:47.750 --> 00:42:49.900 was adamant about taking them over to the rocsi 667 00:42:49.910 --> 00:42:53.630 field. And I was adamant about wanting to take 668 00:42:53.630 --> 00:42:56.270 them over to Lincoln Way and sitting and staging a 669 00:42:56.270 --> 00:43:00.290 sit in on Lincoln Lane. Why didn't you want to go 670 00:43:00.290 --> 00:43:05.290 to the front. It was in the old issue again of 671 00:43:08.870 --> 00:43:11.480 deciding what you wanted to protest about and then 672 00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:16.190 doing it is direct a matter as possible just as 673 00:43:16.850 --> 00:43:19.580 the original actions in the armoury I thought were 674 00:43:19.580 --> 00:43:22.990 confused with Kent State. It was my opinion that 675 00:43:22.990 --> 00:43:25.220 the actions we were doing that could have been the 676 00:43:25.220 --> 00:43:28.130 actions that Trembly wanted to do after the rally 677 00:43:28.220 --> 00:43:32.450 were confusing Indochina War with ROTC program and 678 00:43:32.450 --> 00:43:35.300 that it was preferred to isolate one of those 679 00:43:35.300 --> 00:43:37.730 issues and the strike it did. 680 00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:45.760 I've always had a reluctance to to kind of try to 681 00:43:49.040 --> 00:43:51.440 identify the university as the institution to be 682 00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:53.990 fighting which should sometimes people have. 683 00:43:56.670 --> 00:43:59.510 And I said you know so I wanted to try to keep it 684 00:43:59.600 --> 00:44:01.370 away from the university at this point. 685 00:44:04.090 --> 00:44:07.010 Did you speak to the valleys on. I spoke to the 686 00:44:07.010 --> 00:44:08.810 crowd later. 687 00:44:11.120 --> 00:44:14.540 The important thing that that happened. Maybe 688 00:44:14.540 --> 00:44:17.330 social logically prior to when the depression was 689 00:44:17.330 --> 00:44:22.330 going on is that Mr Trembley and myself weren't 690 00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:26.480 able to to reach a decision as to which activity 691 00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:27.110 to do. 692 00:44:30.450 --> 00:44:34.760 That's why I decided without informing trembley to 693 00:44:35.290 --> 00:44:38.120 to let my issue die just simply so there'd be a 694 00:44:38.120 --> 00:44:41.390 certainty what we were doing so that I knew what 695 00:44:41.390 --> 00:44:44.240 he wanted to do and I was going to allow him to do 696 00:44:44.240 --> 00:44:47.660 it so that I know the total activity whereas I 697 00:44:47.660 --> 00:44:49.720 didn't want to start to do something and then find 698 00:44:49.720 --> 00:44:54.290 myself confronted with his activity. So so there 699 00:44:54.290 --> 00:44:57.780 was a reluctance backing down on my part Mr. 700 00:44:57.860 --> 00:44:59.960 Tremblay. I didn't bother to inform Mr. Kemberly 701 00:44:59.960 --> 00:45:04.960 about them following Professor Alan at the 702 00:45:05.450 --> 00:45:07.730 initiative of some of the people in the crowd 703 00:45:11.330 --> 00:45:13.700 because of the length of what had happened and the 704 00:45:13.700 --> 00:45:16.700 fear that the crowd was dispersing. Trembly went 705 00:45:16.700 --> 00:45:18.290 up and spoke at the mike. 706 00:45:22.100 --> 00:45:24.110 Put out a call for people to attend the ROCSI 707 00:45:24.110 --> 00:45:24.740 program. 708 00:45:29.470 --> 00:45:31.160 He had informed me that he was going to do that 709 00:45:31.170 --> 00:45:33.660 following when he did that. I followed him to the 710 00:45:33.660 --> 00:45:34.080 mike 711 00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:38.770 endorsed the call to go over there and 712 00:45:40.890 --> 00:45:41.280 made 713 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:47.430 a speech on what I identified earlier as the as 714 00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:49.320 the love motive for going over to karate 715 00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:52.890 demonstration of making sure that people went over 716 00:45:52.890 --> 00:45:55.530 there without hatred and went over there as an 717 00:45:55.530 --> 00:46:00.000 expression of concern. I'm not sure how much of 718 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:03.150 the crowd heard that or how much of that was the 719 00:46:03.150 --> 00:46:04.680 motive of the crowd going over there. 720 00:46:08.140 --> 00:46:12.510 Trembley and myself have somewhat different images 721 00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:18.330 and followings on the university. The the size of 722 00:46:18.330 --> 00:46:20.550 the crowd is probably in large part determined 723 00:46:20.550 --> 00:46:23.100 because both of us in the north. If one of us had 724 00:46:23.100 --> 00:46:26.130 and the other hadn't. I don't think it would win 725 00:46:26.160 --> 00:46:29.340 over as well as it did when we got there. 726 00:46:33.730 --> 00:46:35.790 Some of us that had bullhorns such as myself 727 00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:40.570 encourage people to try to talk to the Iraqi 728 00:46:40.570 --> 00:46:45.000 people that were in ranks not to arrest them not 729 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:47.140 to yell at them to scream at them or make any 730 00:46:47.740 --> 00:46:50.440 threat toward them but to simply to to try to 731 00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:54.370 rationally talk to them. They didn't talk back. 732 00:46:55.420 --> 00:46:59.530 But still encourage people to talk and try to make 733 00:46:59.530 --> 00:47:02.230 some humor over the megaphones to try to keep 734 00:47:02.230 --> 00:47:03.460 people calm. 735 00:47:06.430 --> 00:47:09.220 I didn't witness any incidences of harassment. 736 00:47:09.250 --> 00:47:13.450 There were a couple of weeks later one individual 737 00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:15.910 that had a camera that had taken film showed me 738 00:47:15.910 --> 00:47:19.710 pictures of a friend of mine a sympathizer to the 739 00:47:19.710 --> 00:47:22.270 peace movement showed me film of of students. 740 00:47:24.310 --> 00:47:26.710 First of all expressions of hatred on their faces 741 00:47:26.770 --> 00:47:30.710 and also minor instances of harassment. So it did 742 00:47:30.710 --> 00:47:31.270 take place 743 00:47:34.450 --> 00:47:38.590 and the Iraqi people decided to break ranks and 744 00:47:38.590 --> 00:47:43.590 then walked over to the armory. There was a call 745 00:47:43.720 --> 00:47:48.070 by someone to follow them over to the armory. 746 00:47:50.200 --> 00:47:55.200 The armory was was reoccupied by a couple thousand 747 00:47:55.450 --> 00:48:00.010 people at least all the bleachers on one side. The 748 00:48:00.010 --> 00:48:03.950 South Side were were full of people. Plus the 749 00:48:04.040 --> 00:48:06.680 floor was full of people probably told mid court. 750 00:48:10.950 --> 00:48:13.140 There was still some thought out there as to what 751 00:48:13.140 --> 00:48:18.140 to do next. Sue Osborne. Whenever we were wanting 752 00:48:19.680 --> 00:48:24.390 to kill time sing song to sing some songs there 753 00:48:24.390 --> 00:48:27.930 were some more cheering than someone in the 754 00:48:27.930 --> 00:48:31.110 audience started the football cheer all the way to 755 00:48:31.110 --> 00:48:35.790 Lincoln Way which is used in football games. So 756 00:48:35.790 --> 00:48:39.920 the crowd packed up and in them by way of the 757 00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:43.590 union drive past Morel Hall and Burcher over to 758 00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:44.700 the Lincoln way 759 00:48:48.210 --> 00:48:52.260 picked up a lot of people on the route and there 760 00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:55.650 were probably maybe almost maybe 3000 people. Some 761 00:48:55.650 --> 00:48:58.350 estimates when we got to Lincoln Way. Did anybody 762 00:48:58.350 --> 00:49:01.860 know what was going to happen. Nobody knew what 763 00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:05.940 was going to happen. When we got to the Lincoln 764 00:49:05.940 --> 00:49:07.170 way in Beach 765 00:49:10.290 --> 00:49:14.820 as one as the head parade Marshall I tried to I 766 00:49:15.900 --> 00:49:20.900 got the crowd to stop at this point hoping to to 767 00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:25.470 do my original activity of the sit in on Lincoln 768 00:49:25.470 --> 00:49:28.890 way. What would you object to having to sit in on 769 00:49:29.010 --> 00:49:32.520 Lincoln. Like the sit in was was becoming pretty 770 00:49:32.520 --> 00:49:35.970 much a common tactic across the country as. 771 00:49:38.620 --> 00:49:43.620 I'm just. I'm doing something that was non-violent. 772 00:49:45.180 --> 00:49:46.300 Agreed. Disruptive 773 00:49:49.170 --> 00:49:52.730 of a tactic. I just I don't want to 774 00:49:52.750 --> 00:49:54.850 inconveniencing people as much as it was an 775 00:49:54.850 --> 00:49:55.510 expression. 776 00:49:58.600 --> 00:49:59.350 Part of the 777 00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:04.120 part of the theory of stopping the war is to 778 00:50:04.120 --> 00:50:07.820 figure out the dilemma of disrupting a society but 779 00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:10.360 doing it nonviolently of 780 00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:15.760 making government difficult to function 781 00:50:15.790 --> 00:50:18.280 particularly over those people that are that are 782 00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:19.240 protesting. 783 00:50:22.470 --> 00:50:23.170 So it was. 784 00:50:27.130 --> 00:50:29.470 It was just I guess a method of trying to 785 00:50:29.470 --> 00:50:31.590 inconvenience government. 786 00:50:33.880 --> 00:50:35.800 Part of the problem that developed there. Well 787 00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:38.980 part of my fear of not wanting to take the crowd 788 00:50:38.980 --> 00:50:43.840 downtown was that if there was no physical damage 789 00:50:43.850 --> 00:50:45.730 if any physical damage was going to be done it was 790 00:50:45.730 --> 00:50:47.870 going to be done in the business district. And 791 00:50:47.870 --> 00:50:49.860 that when the opportunity would present itself and 792 00:50:49.870 --> 00:50:50.890 we didn't want to see that 793 00:50:53.720 --> 00:50:56.740 item originally called for. When I got the crowd 794 00:50:56.740 --> 00:50:59.440 to stop for a 10 minute symbolic sit down of one 795 00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:03.120 minute greed each the word continued. Which isn't 796 00:51:03.130 --> 00:51:05.690 quite historically true but that's in 797 00:51:09.100 --> 00:51:14.100 the first couple rows of people always tend to be 798 00:51:15.630 --> 00:51:20.630 the most enthusiastic activist types of started to 799 00:51:21.430 --> 00:51:22.690 continue downtown. 800 00:51:25.270 --> 00:51:28.360 Once again I used the tactic of isolating that 801 00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:31.540 group of pointing them out to the crowd and got 802 00:51:31.540 --> 00:51:33.730 the crowd to ask them to come back and sit down 803 00:51:34.170 --> 00:51:36.670 and watch the crowd did in which the first couple 804 00:51:36.670 --> 00:51:37.300 rows did. 805 00:51:39.630 --> 00:51:44.630 They're developed because of this incident which 806 00:51:44.900 --> 00:51:46.810 develop because of the first rows wanting to go 807 00:51:46.810 --> 00:51:47.500 downtown 808 00:51:49.540 --> 00:51:54.490 a certain amount of factionalism as to what the 809 00:51:54.490 --> 00:51:55.720 next action should be. 810 00:51:58.390 --> 00:52:00.370 I was still hoping that the crowd would just sit 811 00:52:00.370 --> 00:52:05.170 there. Other members wanted to continue downtown. 812 00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:09.370 Other members wanted to go back to the university 813 00:52:10.870 --> 00:52:13.270 and talk to in the hands of particular departments 814 00:52:15.340 --> 00:52:17.080 about allowing students to get out of school. 815 00:52:19.600 --> 00:52:22.750 What happened. What resulted was a vote being 816 00:52:22.750 --> 00:52:24.130 taken by the crowd. 817 00:52:27.130 --> 00:52:29.590 The sound system that was used was the. 818 00:52:32.950 --> 00:52:35.320 Soundsystem are one of the police cars that were 819 00:52:35.320 --> 00:52:36.310 sitting on the corner. 820 00:52:38.470 --> 00:52:42.400 He was very willing to to allow the sound system 821 00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:43.930 to be used by those individuals that were 822 00:52:43.930 --> 00:52:45.820 advocating going back to the university. But he 823 00:52:45.820 --> 00:52:48.970 was reluctant to let the sound system be used by 824 00:52:48.970 --> 00:52:51.420 those people that advocated to sit down and know 825 00:52:51.420 --> 00:52:54.730 the people who wanted to go downtown. But he did 826 00:52:54.730 --> 00:52:59.730 allow that the vote was taken and a vote was one 827 00:53:00.130 --> 00:53:04.660 very one way about going downtown. The discussion 828 00:53:04.660 --> 00:53:06.700 that took place part of the vote was explaining 829 00:53:06.700 --> 00:53:09.340 options not explaining rationale behind options. 830 00:53:09.610 --> 00:53:13.570 It wasn't a fight for an idea of letting people 831 00:53:13.570 --> 00:53:18.070 know what they could do. We went downtown before 832 00:53:18.070 --> 00:53:21.910 that. Do you know how the police got there. No I'm 833 00:53:21.910 --> 00:53:26.350 not sure how they got there. Did you need a parade 834 00:53:26.500 --> 00:53:26.860 permit. 835 00:53:29.470 --> 00:53:33.370 Their zone is my understanding. And we check this 836 00:53:33.370 --> 00:53:36.400 out. There is no condition in the city code which 837 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.560 require that parade permit for any activity. 838 00:53:40.950 --> 00:53:43.940 Well City Hall will issue a parade permit if even 839 00:53:43.990 --> 00:53:48.010 own and ask them for one. But they never prevented 840 00:53:48.010 --> 00:53:50.380 any activity that's taking place without a parade 841 00:53:50.380 --> 00:53:50.770 permit. 842 00:53:53.270 --> 00:53:55.480 Usually we've we've been courteous enough to 843 00:53:55.480 --> 00:53:59.200 inform them prior to an event this time not 844 00:53:59.200 --> 00:54:01.060 knowing that we would wind up on Lincoln way. 845 00:54:01.180 --> 00:54:04.750 There was no prior knowledge or prior informing 846 00:54:07.540 --> 00:54:10.920 after the vote was taken. There was sort of a 847 00:54:10.930 --> 00:54:14.380 split caused in the crowd mainly by people that 848 00:54:14.380 --> 00:54:17.500 didn't understand I suppose who stayed at Lincoln 849 00:54:17.500 --> 00:54:22.500 way from the Jug Band which is a local musical 850 00:54:22.990 --> 00:54:27.100 group put on a small concert type thing I guess at 851 00:54:27.100 --> 00:54:28.570 the intersection there for those people that 852 00:54:28.570 --> 00:54:31.270 stayed there with the crowd and continued downtown. 853 00:54:32.200 --> 00:54:34.540 You went down with the crowd. I went down with the 854 00:54:34.540 --> 00:54:38.920 crowd as the as the head marshal to fund a parade. 855 00:54:42.530 --> 00:54:43.070 There was 856 00:54:45.140 --> 00:54:47.660 what was attempted to do in the trade was was to 857 00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:50.270 convince people that they had to stay together. 858 00:54:52.340 --> 00:54:53.300 But that was the best 859 00:54:55.490 --> 00:54:57.410 position for them to find themselves in that they 860 00:54:57.410 --> 00:55:00.800 were a unit and they had to do things as a unit. 861 00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:03.710 And anytime anyone broke off from that unit they 862 00:55:03.710 --> 00:55:07.700 were they were harming the total activity. So 863 00:55:07.700 --> 00:55:12.050 there were many tears or many instructions from 864 00:55:12.050 --> 00:55:16.060 the people with megaphones to stay cool become 865 00:55:16.610 --> 00:55:21.610 smart get together. You're beautiful and stuff 866 00:55:23.630 --> 00:55:26.120 like that of trying to develop. Once again this 867 00:55:26.120 --> 00:55:30.230 unity unity also included 868 00:55:32.620 --> 00:55:37.520 linking arms keeping rings even whenever one row 869 00:55:38.060 --> 00:55:41.570 particularly the front road which controls usually 870 00:55:41.570 --> 00:55:44.060 the pace of the crowd of keeping them slow keeping 871 00:55:44.060 --> 00:55:46.430 them even with everyone followed behind. 872 00:55:49.790 --> 00:55:53.060 There was. Did you know are you going to you say 873 00:55:53.180 --> 00:55:57.190 we made an agreement as you're going to the the 874 00:55:57.200 --> 00:55:59.570 route that we used in October which was 875 00:55:59.700 --> 00:56:03.200 downlinking way to the sixty nine and then over to 876 00:56:03.200 --> 00:56:05.330 Main Street and back up Main Street to the draft 877 00:56:05.330 --> 00:56:07.520 board. So the route was was agreed upon. 878 00:56:09.530 --> 00:56:11.840 There was some difficulty dealing with traffic in 879 00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:15.650 that you know it hadn't been cleared and there 880 00:56:15.650 --> 00:56:17.360 weren't enough police to keep it in. The crowd was 881 00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:20.240 so large that we took up the entire highway rather 882 00:56:20.240 --> 00:56:22.010 than two of the four lanes. 883 00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:29.030 Numbers of governments didn't body primarily were 884 00:56:29.150 --> 00:56:31.430 on the parade directing traffic at each 885 00:56:31.430 --> 00:56:36.110 intersection. There were some obvious displeasure 886 00:56:36.110 --> 00:56:41.000 of people in cars. One truck to the turn went to 887 00:56:41.010 --> 00:56:44.410 thousands obviously and could oppose The 888 00:56:44.410 --> 00:56:46.280 Apprentice and students and people. And in a way 889 00:56:46.290 --> 00:56:46.850 probably. 890 00:56:53.310 --> 00:56:57.460 One incident only one incident. Red row arose 891 00:56:57.540 --> 00:57:01.140 along along the route is when we went by the 892 00:57:01.140 --> 00:57:04.110 Highway Commission. It was an American flag. It 893 00:57:04.110 --> 00:57:08.370 pulls down and through. Well maybe four or five 894 00:57:08.370 --> 00:57:10.920 people decided that they wanted to be lowered to 895 00:57:10.920 --> 00:57:11.610 half staff 896 00:57:13.680 --> 00:57:16.530 getting prior to getting the flying. I had 897 00:57:16.530 --> 00:57:19.530 anticipated the problem and instructed three or 898 00:57:19.530 --> 00:57:22.110 four marshals to go to the flag and stand around 899 00:57:22.110 --> 00:57:27.090 it. Also when when people left to try to take down 900 00:57:27.090 --> 00:57:32.090 the flag once again with the with the megaphone. 901 00:57:32.570 --> 00:57:36.660 And they were I verbally I provided them and 902 00:57:36.660 --> 00:57:39.840 instructed the crowd to ask the crowd to cheer 903 00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:44.490 them to come back. OK. Well when when that was 904 00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:48.420 done when they were well you know when they knew 905 00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:50.220 the crowd knew that they were they were leaving 906 00:57:50.220 --> 00:57:53.570 that they were no longer together completely. They 907 00:57:53.610 --> 00:57:56.520 they came back into the crowd. So the flag didn't 908 00:57:56.520 --> 00:57:57.450 stay where it was. 909 00:57:59.580 --> 00:58:02.460 We continued down the route came back up Main 910 00:58:02.460 --> 00:58:02.880 Street 911 00:58:05.520 --> 00:58:06.750 came up Main Street. 912 00:58:09.450 --> 00:58:12.750 Once again we we did as we did the Saturday before 913 00:58:12.750 --> 00:58:16.800 and May 2nd slowed down the route to the pace 914 00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:17.790 rather alarming around. 915 00:58:20.130 --> 00:58:23.580 Just went as slow as a very slow rate so people 916 00:58:24.450 --> 00:58:26.400 would be cognizant of our presence. 917 00:58:28.530 --> 00:58:29.430 There was a lot of. 918 00:58:32.630 --> 00:58:34.460 Always when going to Main Street. Listen to the 919 00:58:34.460 --> 00:58:39.460 cheers picked up the people along the crowd along 920 00:58:39.780 --> 00:58:42.920 the townspeople didn't seem to have any real 921 00:58:43.190 --> 00:58:48.080 animosity. A few people didn't join the parade. 922 00:58:48.470 --> 00:58:52.820 There was a lot of asking them to people. There 923 00:58:52.820 --> 00:58:55.340 was a lot of people with the people in the 924 00:58:55.340 --> 00:58:57.950 dialogues of one person and people with the 925 00:58:57.950 --> 00:59:01.070 megaphone to one side of dialogue towards people 926 00:59:01.070 --> 00:59:06.070 on the road of talking directly to them know in a 927 00:59:06.620 --> 00:59:08.690 very audible fashion that allowed fashion of 928 00:59:08.690 --> 00:59:10.830 raising rhetorical question what's best for them. 929 00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:14.300 Is this what they wanted to happen. Did it have 930 00:59:14.300 --> 00:59:17.610 their approval on the congressman's approval with 931 00:59:17.630 --> 00:59:22.430 Nixon acting independent of the world. So I think 932 00:59:22.850 --> 00:59:25.370 a lot of it even though was dialogue and 933 00:59:25.390 --> 00:59:26.910 communication didn't take place. 934 00:59:29.410 --> 00:59:32.210 We finally wound up at the draft board and once 935 00:59:32.210 --> 00:59:34.160 again we had a problem of trying to figure out 936 00:59:34.160 --> 00:59:37.790 what to do. We hadn't planned an activity 937 00:59:40.160 --> 00:59:41.210 when we got there. 938 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:46.760 We had the two gentlemen stall for some more time. 939 00:59:48.620 --> 00:59:51.380 One individual. Well first of all there were two 940 00:59:51.380 --> 00:59:54.400 patrolmen arm patrolmen inside the draft board 941 00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:59.440 with the side arms and helmets and clubs. 942 01:00:02.870 --> 01:00:03.890 One individual. 943 01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:10.800 Was it was very adamant. He didn't express this 944 01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:13.380 publicly. It did express it all three or four 945 01:00:13.380 --> 01:00:17.700 times to me of wanting to go in and destroy files. 946 01:00:19.590 --> 01:00:21.480 He was for some reason convinced the police 947 01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:22.980 weren't going to try to stop anyone from doing 948 01:00:22.980 --> 01:00:27.380 that. I was in no means that convinced an animal 949 01:00:28.510 --> 01:00:29.640 never made that proposal. 950 01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:36.600 There was the old feeling of always when you have 951 01:00:36.600 --> 01:00:38.600 a crowd of trying to decide what to do with them 952 01:00:38.730 --> 01:00:41.870 but not really knowing what to do about how loud 953 01:00:41.900 --> 01:00:45.900 booms grow. Now back to the platform. Well I've 954 01:00:45.900 --> 01:00:49.640 heard estimates in the press of 800 to 1000. 955 01:00:52.190 --> 01:00:55.750 I have always had a trouble figuring out crowds on 956 01:00:56.400 --> 01:00:59.490 the March in October that we had was was estimated 957 01:00:59.490 --> 01:01:00.420 at nineteen hundred. 958 01:01:02.490 --> 01:01:05.130 But this crowd the crowd we had there to me looked 959 01:01:05.130 --> 01:01:08.300 quite larger than one we had in October or so. So 960 01:01:08.310 --> 01:01:12.320 I don't know which figures to believe eventually. 961 01:01:14.900 --> 01:01:18.180 And this was my suggestion once again was the 962 01:01:18.180 --> 01:01:20.130 action we decided to take which 963 01:01:22.260 --> 01:01:24.720 didn't come off real well was was I made a speech 964 01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:28.860 of Nixon being trapped in Southeast Asia and the 965 01:01:28.860 --> 01:01:31.020 youth of America being trapped in the draft being 966 01:01:31.020 --> 01:01:34.800 trapped in the drab. And now we had an opportunity 967 01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:39.800 to to trap the draft inside the board. Where were 968 01:01:41.640 --> 01:01:44.580 the patrolmen and also personnel. The draft board 969 01:01:44.790 --> 01:01:48.540 and the theory of the action plan was to sit in 970 01:01:48.540 --> 01:01:51.900 front of the door and and not allow them out to 971 01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:55.080 make them spend the night in their homes or longer 972 01:01:55.080 --> 01:01:58.380 than that if you know if it proved worthwhile to 973 01:01:58.380 --> 01:02:00.530 do so on. 974 01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:06.750 Well it didn't. We didn't directly to the 975 01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:11.800 personnel. No the activities at least as an 976 01:02:12.460 --> 01:02:14.620 organizer the activities at this time and 977 01:02:14.620 --> 01:02:18.310 activities that come up in the following days 978 01:02:21.010 --> 01:02:24.160 are never directed towards the personnel or in all 979 01:02:24.160 --> 01:02:26.110 instances directed towards the institution. 980 01:02:27.580 --> 01:02:30.670 There's always talk to the personnel of asking 981 01:02:30.670 --> 01:02:33.770 them to to leave the institution not assisting in 982 01:02:33.770 --> 01:02:34.210 any more. 983 01:02:36.880 --> 01:02:41.880 But there's always a problem not a guarantee but 984 01:02:42.130 --> 01:02:45.730 the statement of purpose of no coercion being 985 01:02:45.730 --> 01:02:48.400 directed towards the personnel inside the building. 986 01:02:51.610 --> 01:02:55.300 Many times the personnel have difficulties 987 01:02:56.890 --> 01:02:59.530 accepting that statement or believing that 988 01:02:59.530 --> 01:03:03.010 statement but that is as an organizing principle. 989 01:03:04.420 --> 01:03:09.420 It's been used for this entire year. In October we 990 01:03:09.850 --> 01:03:14.470 came out with several statements of guarantees and 991 01:03:14.470 --> 01:03:17.800 one of those guarantees where we're told no force 992 01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:21.400 or coercion would be used. It was still a still a 993 01:03:21.400 --> 01:03:22.420 principle in my mind. 994 01:03:26.140 --> 01:03:29.050 If they had wanted to do that and they wanted to 995 01:03:29.050 --> 01:03:30.470 get out. Would you allow them. 996 01:03:35.730 --> 01:03:39.490 They that I don't think you know forcing them to 997 01:03:39.490 --> 01:03:44.170 stay in there. Well there are you know there's 998 01:03:44.170 --> 01:03:48.640 there's a dilemma there of you know attacking the 999 01:03:48.640 --> 01:03:50.620 war versus individual rights. 1000 01:03:52.750 --> 01:03:54.970 There's a dilemma that was very real with the 1001 01:03:54.970 --> 01:03:57.940 Rozzi demonstration and on the right to 1002 01:03:57.940 --> 01:04:02.290 demonstration. You know it does not appear in my 1003 01:04:02.290 --> 01:04:05.590 mind that was justified. And depending on whether 1004 01:04:05.590 --> 01:04:08.270 you had the hate concept or the hate motive the 1005 01:04:08.290 --> 01:04:12.340 love motive didn't make it right in that it was 1006 01:04:12.340 --> 01:04:12.700 just 1007 01:04:14.710 --> 01:04:18.350 because you know you can justify it in some way 1008 01:04:18.460 --> 01:04:20.270 and then really come come off well. 1009 01:04:22.890 --> 01:04:27.080 All protesters are sort of an experiment. And 1010 01:04:27.100 --> 01:04:28.720 because you do it one way you're not committed to 1011 01:04:28.720 --> 01:04:33.190 do it that way. Another time also time forces you 1012 01:04:33.190 --> 01:04:38.050 to do things are ill prepared sometimes or not as 1013 01:04:38.050 --> 01:04:43.050 prepared as you desire to be. So any time as 1014 01:04:43.340 --> 01:04:48.340 opposed to did the following. We staged to sit in 1015 01:04:49.050 --> 01:04:51.920 in front of the draft corps door on. 1016 01:04:55.030 --> 01:05:00.030 The crowd sort of broke up at that time. I mean we 1017 01:05:00.640 --> 01:05:05.350 didn't have the thousand people that we had which 1018 01:05:05.350 --> 01:05:06.670 is probably understandable.